???

[Deutschland Duchess]

Do you think stacking players is a form of cheating or just simply trying to strengthen a weakish team

[pvfc]

Bit early in the season to be asking this question isn't it? If this is going on already I would be concerned about the sustainability of the competition...
Why would you bother stacking a team? It's not fair to the players who normally make up a team, as they just want to play and do the best that they can - if you 'stack' a team then regular squad players miss out.
Anyway, I thought there was a limit on the number of players who can 'play down' in a lower div team, and they can only go to next lowest div also?

[The General]

How would you answer your own question DD ?

The bottom senior division was originally introduced for players new to the game,who havent played much / or at all before. Suppose to be more of a development type division for senior players who have never played juniors.
If you have players coming out of the junior competition,you want to put them into a competitive environment,do you want their development to continue, or do you just want to win ?
My daughter was in the Salisbury United team in 2001,they had only two players in the squad that had ever played soccer before.
The rest didnt know the rules or positions,how to take throw ins,or anything ,started completely from scratch. Fortunately they had a coach with a lot of patience,and some of the players from the Men's Club helped out,as did some of the parents.
My whole point to this is that over half ( 8 of the 14 girls ) were only 14 years old,didnt have enough for a junior team so they entered in the bottom senior division,cant remember if it was 3 or 4 ? Most of the games were really close,3 teams fighting for top spot in the last round.
They had so much fun,the following year entered two senior teams.That is what it's all about,in my opinion.

[Deutschland Duchess]

i am all for Juniors going up to the lower or higher senior divisions for their development to the game but the question that i am putting out there is more for higher divisions dropping players to lower divisions when higher divisions are not being played.

[The General]

if the regular players are genuinely unavailable,then of course you would call upon other players. If some of the regular players of the lower grade team are not selected because you are bringing in players from a higher grade team,not only is it unfair to the players missing out,obviously you are stacking the team.
I wonder how many clubs ask their players to play for more then one team on any Sunday ?

[pvfc]

I wonder how many clubs ask their players to play for more then one team on any Sunday ?

Those that can and may need to from time to time as per FFSA rules below;

34.3 ...open age divisions, a maximum of three players may move up or down in any
one given game. Players can only move down to the next lowest division that their club
fields.
34.4 All players that are eligible to play in the Under 17 League, this being a player that
does not turn 18 years of age in the year of competition, have free movement between
competitions if age permits. A player does not have to be playing in the Under 17
League to be eligible under this ruling

You would hope this would normally be having players play 'up' more than 'down' though, particularly juniors who you are looking to start to give senior team experience to, probably starting on the bench not in starting 11.

There is also a rule which limits SASI players to only being on one team sheet for their club each Sunday, and this over-rides the U17 free movement rule.

[The General]

I always get a bit concerned when people keep quoting what the rule book says,usually only people who exploit the rules to the max who do that,in my opinion.
Sometimes we have to think simple,and what's fair and moral,you do that, you dont need to worry about the rules too much.
Unfortunately ,it appears that a few clubs do not adopt "in the best interest of the game" philosophy.

I think the original question was ,as an example,your club only has a div 1 side and a div 3 side. This weekend your div 1 side has a bye,so you throw some of the div 1 players into your div 3 side,at the expense of regular div 3 players. We all know that is allowed, but is it stacking ? Yes.
If you genuinely have div 3 players not able to play,you are not going to leave them short,so of course some div 1 players would help out to make up the numbers. I do not call this stacking.

[pvfc]

I always get a bit concerned when people keep quoting what the rule book says,usually only people who exploit the rules to the max who do that,in my opinion.

I could take offence to that comment
Was simply pointing out that if people follow the rules it shouldn't be possible to stack any team as much as some people are suggesting may happen sometimes.

I think the original question was ,as an example,your club only has a div 1 side and a div 3 side. This weekend your div 1 side has a bye,so you throw some of the div 1 players into your div 3 side,at the expense of regular div 3 players. We all know that is allowed, but is it stacking ? Yes.

I agree, and it is poor form if it happens.

If you genuinely have div 3 players not able to play,you are not going to leave them short,so of course some div 1 players would help out to make up the numbers. I do not call this stacking.

I agree - so long as it doesn't leave your div1 team short.....

[The General]

Apologies if you were offended pvfc, certainly wasnt meant to be. Sometimes when people ask a general question (no pun intended ) I just get the impression that the answer they want, is in reference to, "is it done in the spirit of the game", rather then referring to the rule book everytime.
I remember being involved years ago (SAWSA ),clubs who had juniors playing in a higher grade team during the season,would move these juniors down to their age groups for cup games only,because the rules allowed them to. You ended up with a final ( juniors ) where a lot of the juniors involved,played very few junior league matches.
I dont know if the rules allow you to do that now,not something I would encourage.

[pvfc]

basically there are rules to prevent that - once a player has played at a certain age group or div in the cup they are not allowed to play in a lower div/age cup.

.....oh, no offence taken btw General!

[The General]

Do you know if there is a ruling that says to play in a particular age group Cup competition, you have to have played a certain amount of games for that particular team ?
e.g. you have a player eligible to play U/15s, but she plays all her league matches for the Club's Senior team,only plays U/15s in the Cup games........shouldnt she have to play a certain amount of games for the U/15s to qualify for the cup games ?
I understand she would not be cup-tied to the senior team, if she did not play in any of their cup games ??

[pvfc]

I believe there is a rule relating to this General, but I seem to remember that this only applies to semi-finals and finals

[SAD GAL]

Rules won't save the game. It just delays the inevitable.

[pvfc]

Rules won't save the game. It just delays the inevitable.

Never said rules would 'save the game'.
Needs more focus on developing players and identifying potential football talent to 'save the game'.
Increasing numbers playing is a good thing, but focus on development at all levels must be the priority. Quantity is good, but quality is needed to lift the profile of the game and help retain and hopefully increase participation. This not just quality of players, but also quality of resources to support and develop them.
One thing which is noticeable this year is the slowly increasing diversity of clubs from which players are being ID'ed for State teams etc. So long as the quality is there then this must surely be at least one promising sign?
There is still much to be done though, as SAD GAL does have a habit of reminding us from time to time.