Talent Identification Champs

[prefly]

If players have been identified (thru being selected in state development squads) why are they participating in the TIC? as they are already in the system!. Surely its better to have a different group of players being looked at not just the usual suspects Case in point: the North under 13's have about 7 from P.Hills out (no problem there, fantastic team) but at least 4 are in state development, wouldn't it be better if other players from P.hills who are not in S.D come out and trial (I'm sure they are good enough). Now, Ive only used the North and P.hills as an example, I'm sure its happening in the other zones and with other clubs as well. In the case of goalkeepers it would be even worse as I would think goalkeepers from the S.D would get in to their respective zone teams, leaving a very small group of new talent to look at, maybe 2. This type of champs bring the best out of some kids (surprising some people),wouldn't it be better if we could get as much new talent as possible past the coaches. I would assume that current under 13 squad members are invited to attend State Development trials for under 14's at the end of the year so they wouldn't miss out.

The coach at the North under 13's trial said it wasn't all about winning but about having fun and bringing players in front of state coaches. Totally agree with him but lets bring some new kids in front of those coaches and let them have some fun too!

[Black Hawk]

The TIC is about talent, not about giving boys a game. The state development squad contains about 30 players so another 30 will be added to that group and play in their zones so that the state coaches can unearth any extra talent at this point. If a player is not in the current development squad and if they are not selected in the the next group of 30 to make up the zone teams then most likely they are a long way off the best 16 in the state.

As a balance, puberty changes and hard work from this point, under 13's, will decide who makes a professional career. There are many stories about players in the A league and overseas who never made a state junior team. There are many junior state team players who never go on to even make a local super league team status.

[simon says]

[quote="prefly"]If players have been identified (thru being selected in state development squads) why are they participating in the TIC? as they are already in the system!. Surely its better to have a different group of players being looked at not just the usual suspects Case in point: the North under 13's have about 7 from P.Hills out (no problem there, fantastic team) but at least 4 are in state development, wouldn't it be better if other players from P.hills who are not in S.D come out and trial (I'm sure they are good enough). Now, Ive only used the North and P.hills as an example, I'm sure its happening in the other zones and with other clubs as well. In the case of goalkeepers it would be even worse as I would think goalkeepers from the S.D would get in to their respective zone teams, leaving a very small group of new talent to look at, maybe 2. This type of champs bring the best out of some kids (surprising some people),wouldn't it be better if we could get as much new talent as possible past the coaches. I would assume that current under 13 squad members are invited to attend State Development trials for under 14's at the end of the year so they wouldn't miss out.

The coach at the North under 13's trial said it wasn't all about winning but about having fun and bringing players in front of state coaches. Totally agree with him but lets bring some new kids in front of those coaches and let them have some fun too![/quote]

You probably need to ask the Federation that question. However, they are still in a development squad and I feel sure the State Coaches would still want to see them up against other development squad players during those Championships. Whatever you do, don't blame the TIC coaches.

[Montanha|Campeo]

The TIC is about talent, not about giving boys a game

ahaha. yes very true .

i dnt think in england they just let them have a game,

[prefly]

Whatever you do, don't blame the TIC coaches.

Didn't think I was. I thought the coach for the under 13 North was great.

[simon says]

No sorry, when I said you, I didn't mean you in person, I meant you as in the general soccer public. It's just a shame that the format is the way it is. I don't think a 3 day carnival is enough time to "spot" new talent and you are right...there would be countless numbers of undiscovered kids out there.....just not enough State Coaches or time to discover them all I guess. I take it you have a son trying out? Good luck if you have.

[prefly]

No prob simon, did have but I'm afraid its all over for him this year as he tore his quad muscle during first trial. He's a very young under 13 so he has got plenty of time. He's just shattered he can't play for his team on Sunday who are fighting for a promotion spot.

I was mostly talking about the really strong sides in their zones, the P.hills , A.city's and Cumby's (and others) who's players that didn't get selected by their clubs(to trial) would be stronger than most other players from less stronger sides. They are the players that sometimes get overlooked , its not charity to allow them to trial is it?.

Black Hawk states the champs are about talent and yes they are, but isn't it talent identification, some of the boys have well and truly been identified so i don't see the benefit for the state coaches in seeing them again at a carnival. If as simon(says) says that they would want another look in competitive match conditions then fair enough.

Are the under 14 S.D players invited out to trials?, I don't think they were last year.

[Black Hawk]

I was mostly talking about the really strong sides in their zones, the P.hills , A.city's and Cumby's (and others) who's players that didn't get selected by their clubs(to trial) would be stronger than most other players from less stronger sides. They are the players that sometimes get overlooked , its not charity to allow them to trial is it?.

It would be charity. If a player is not in the best 6 at his club he would be effectively choking the selection process for the zone if he trialled. He would, at this stage, not be advanced enough for the zone let alone a state team. Realistically, too many clubs send too many players who are not up to the standard required for zone teams.

[Hollygirl]

No prob simon, did have but I'm afraid its all over for him this year as he tore his quad muscle during first trial. He's a very young under 13 so he has got plenty of time. He's just shattered he can't play for his team on Sunday who are fighting for a promotion spot.

I was mostly talking about the really strong sides in their zones, the P.hills , A.city's and Cumby's (and others) who's players that didn't get selected by their clubs(to trial) would be stronger than most other players from less stronger sides. They are the players that sometimes get overlooked , its not charity to allow them to trial is it?.

Black Hawk states the champs are about talent and yes they are, but isn't it talent identification, some of the boys have well and truly been identified so i don't see the benefit for the state coaches in seeing them again at a carnival. If as simon(says) says that they would want another look in competitive match conditions then fair enough.

Are the under 14 S.D players invited out to trials?, I don't think they were last year.

No Under 14 State players to be included but Under 13's and below are....no Under 13's were last year.

[sgt peppers]

The zone coaches if time permitted should seek out the clubs in their zones and observe the players in a game situation rather than at a 3 day trial process.

This would give the coaches more scope to select the appropriate players rather than the easy way out of picking most of all the players from the top clubs in the zone area.

I have seen the ludricous situation in the past year of a zone coach picking 12 players from the top 2 clubs and this only left 4 spots from the remaining players. Is this really fair on the players that wish to aspire to a higher level in the talent id championiship.

The FFSA should limit to say 4 players from each club to be picked for the zone team allowing a fairer selection process.

[johnydep]

The zone coaches if time permitted should seek out the clubs in their zones and observe the players in a game situation rather than at a 3 day trial process.

............

I hope you realise that STIC coaches have a life, a job, a family and they volunteer to coach the STIC teams. Most STIC coaches put the players into game situations,

If parents involved were willing to pay a substantial increase in STIC fees so that the FFSA could hire coaches for the whole process, I'm sure they could take time off of their regular schedule to do as you mention.

Hopefully the FFSA strongly enforce the rule - 'maximum 5 players from one club'.

[johnydep]

......The FFSA should limit to say 4 players from each club to be picked for the zone team allowing a fairer selection process.

This could also be called 'unfair', for various reasons. I know of one club that enticed a father to change club on the promise of nominating his son to the STIC.

[The Boss]

Prefly, you have hit the nail on the head perfectly.

No.1, It should not be called "Talent Identification" when you select players that have already been identified either in state teams or development squads. Call it "State Championships" or something more suitable.

No. 2, There was a cap on 5 players per club, per age group last year but this did not stop 12 Para Hills players turning up for one age group.

No. 3, Players that did not even turn up to trials were selected before others that did.(eg state players)

Quite frankly, it was the biggest farce I and my children have ever been involved in over many years of soccer. The coach of one particular age group was the most unprofessional, arrogant coach I have ever come across. Many parents complained to the FFSA in writing about the coach and the whole selection criteria for coaches and players.
I don't believe this particular coach will ever get a gig again but obviously the selection criteria or process should have eliminated this from the start.

The joy of it all was seeing this team fail miserably, which should have by rights been a very strong side.

[johnydep]

I didn't think there was a State U13 team.

I don't think that we can stop kids trying out just because they're in the 'FFSA State teams'. The STIC is another tool to measure the skills, performance and attitude of players and coaches. Having the best talent available involved only helps all involved, I've seen average kids in an average team play outstandingly when moved to a team with more talent.

Taking out all the experienced kids could have a negative affect.

That's just an opinion from someone still learning the ropes - me

Last year I had the privilege of coaching a STIC team; the players, the parents and myself enjoyed it immensely.
At the time, coaches were told by the FFSA that every player must get equal time on the pitch, and to play them so that the scouts can see their strengths. I did this but it was hard when some played a team to win.

It’s impossible to have a Championship without trying to win, that’s the nature of competition. Deep down, I see nothing wrong with putting together your strongest team to win.

Another way would be to drop the ‘Championship’ and just make it 'State Talent Identification' but that doesn’t quite do it for everyone.

I’ve been told that this year the FFSA is enforcing the equal play time rule. How, is the question.

Good luck to all involve.

[Montanha|Campeo]

Prefly, you have hit the nail on the head perfectly.

No.1, It should not be called "Talent Identification" when you select players that have already been identified either in state teams or development squads. Call it "State Championships" or something more suitable.

No. 2, There was a cap on 5 players per club, per age group last year but this did not stop 12 Para Hills players turning up for one age group.

No. 3, Players that did not even turn up to trials were selected before others that did.(eg state players)

Quite frankly, it was the biggest farce I and my children have ever been involved in over many years of soccer. The coach of one particular age group was the most unprofessional, arrogant coach I have ever come across. Many parents complained to the FFSA in writing about the coach and the whole selection criteria for coaches and players.
I don't believe this particular coach will ever get a gig again but obviously the selection criteria or process should have eliminated this from the start.

The joy of it all was seeing this team fail miserably, which should have by rights been a very strong side.

U Just obviously hate the tournament because your son didn't make the team, also i bet only the pissed off parents like yourself who's son's didn't make the team wrote and complained to the FFSA about the coach and his decision as u think your an expert. One more thing, i support para hills' decision to send out 12 players because obviously they feel as though they have the best talent in the north zone. Last year the eastern zone team for the under 11's which i closely followed had 9 from campbelltown 4 from adelaide city, 2 from metro, 2 from adelaide hills and 1 from blue eagles. Campbelltown obviously thought they had the talent in there teams to make the east zone and they did. The team eventually won there age group. The coach told the FFSA that he would not go by the cap of certain players because then it would not be a competition of the best players because then NAB players would make the team when they are completely hopeless and other teams who have 10 times better players have to miss out because of the cap. And of course you have to look at reality, if there is a state player that comes to maybe 3 out of 5 trials compared to a normal player who comes to everyone, the state player is just going to be chosen. Cmon r u going to not chose a player because he didnt come to all the trials and choose a player who is basically a nothing. Do you want your team to win or not? seriously don't think of this as a parent think of this a coach and wanting to win and be exposed to the best talent. If the state player wasnt chosen then it wouldnt be a competition of the best players in south australia would it then??

take a walk in someone elses shoes buddy

[The Boss]

U Just obviously hate the tournament because your son didn't make the team, also i bet only the pissed off parents like yourself who's son's didn't make the team wrote and complained to the FFSA about the coach and his decision as u think your an expert. One more thing, i support para hills' decision to send out 12 players because obviously they feel as though they have the best talent in the north zone.

Mate, don't insult my intelligence and experience. I have merely agreed with prefly and his comments and have relayed the experiences of our family and others who have been involved with state championships for six years in many capacities. If guidelines are set, they should be adhered to and there should not be "jobs for the boys". Each player should be evaluated fairly on merit, not who they know or who they play for. Unfortunately one bad experience with a coach sours the experience for everyone.
For the record my son has played in 5 consecutive state championships and his age group has dominated each year, conceding 3 goals as a goalkeeper in 5 years in over 25 matches. I would have thought that maybe he would have got a look in.
Also for the record, it doesn't go down to well with kids and parents when you turn up to training sessions at 8 am in the morning to find out that it has been cancelled and you have not been notified. When the coach is confronted he says,"it's not my job".

Take a walk in my shoes

[Barney Rubble]

Size 9's by the sound of it

[prefly]

If the state player wasnt chosen then it wouldnt be a competition of the best players in south australia would it then??

Its not supposed to be its the : Talent Identification Championships Its to identify Junior talent, this so called state player would already be identified.

All clubs should send out all their players in the age group. What a great first trial that would be

Look its obvious that some zones don't get or don't want to get the Talent identification aspect of the championships they are out to win it at all costs, so sooner or later the FFSA will buckle and make it just the state champs again.

But I think that the under 13 age group in South Australia is strong enough in that it can afford to have one carnival without the state development players playing in it. It's a pity that some zones (and a tiny few coaches) don't have the confidence in their zone talent.

[portobello]

Last year the eastern zone team for the under 11's which i closely followed had 9 from campbelltown 4 from adelaide city, 2 from metro, 2 from adelaide hills and 1 from blue eagles. Campbelltown obviously thought they had the talent in there teams to make the east zone and they did.

don't let the truth get in the way of your story...

I have the programme from last year in front of me with all the names and clubs.

Under 11 East...

Metrostars x 3 (one player was at Metrostars at last season, not Campbelltown)

Adelaide Hills x 2

Adelaide City x 4

Blue Eagles x 1

Campbelltown x 6

you have 18 in the team you claim was there for starters...

[deets]

Hey - that's my son!

[Montanha|Campeo]

Sorry Yes it was six from campbelltown. Portobello, u from adelaide city?

[skins]

Portobello, u from adelaide city?

isn't it obvious??

[de uno]

Hey the Boss I've read your story. I had a son that played in the northern zone last year. He was from a club that sent 12 or so players to the trials. I took the time and trouble to raise this very question of maximum numbers per club for the zone side. The coach explained to me that although the maximum was 6, providing one was a goalkeeper, he would not prevent others from trying out and every child that made the effort to turn up would get the chance to trial even though he was supposed to turn them away if not on the list provided by the FFSA.

It sounds like you might have been in the same trial as my son because of the one trial that was cancelled. If that's the case your child must be one of the EDJSA lads that came out. I can tell you that we were notified by our club via the FFSA.

There was no problem with our coach even though the team didn't do to well but it was a valuable learning experience since our lad came from a side that was winning constantly. To say it was a pleasure watching the team not do so well really does demonstrate that you think its all about you and not the youngsters. The coaches for our game need support not small minded negativity because as we all know they are all highly paid.

[The Boss]

De Uno, I appreciate where you are coming from but I must reiterate again, that this was a personal experience from 6 players and their families. The way we were treated and lied to was nothing short of an absolute disgrace. When we took the time and trouble to ask the same question you did, why did we get a different answer? His response to us was, that he could chose up to 6 players per TEAM (not club)and as Para Hills had an A and B team in that age group, he felt justified in doing so. Our kids were also never notified if they had been cut or not. The night before training of the final squad none of the children knew if they had to turn up to training the next morning or not. All of us had made phone calls and sent emails that day to try and find out if our kids were required or not. Even when we rang the coach himself, he said he could not tell us. By this time, these children and their parents had had enough and were no longer interested in turning up anyway.
I admire anyone that puts up their hand to dedicate their time and energy to junior sport but if you take on a role, you must follow the guidelines and do the job properly. I myself hold many senior positions in our wonderful sport and dedicate 7 days a week of my time for the betterment of our sport.
This is not about me or the other parents at all, our children deserved much better and they were very bitter and disillusioned by the whole process. What I said about enjoying seeing the team not do well was probably harsh but this is how the children responded to their treatment.
I hope now that I have expanded on our situation and that you realise how much effort I put in personally into the sport, you can get a clearer picture of why so many of us were upset.
If your experience was good, that's all that matters, this was our experience, so have some sympathy for the other children that were not treated the same way you were.
At the end of the day we should all be working towards improving the sport and making it an enjoyable experience for everyone. If some lessons were learned from this, all is good, but we cannot afford to have good players lose interest in the sport.

[de uno]

I appreciate that is your view on things, and it is purely your view as is mine, and I cannot praise those coaches highly enough! Obviously I cannot talk for everyone, neither do I want to but I can only go on my findings and those of my son. I never heard any negativity on the side line so I can only assume everyone was happy. Anyway its over now. I dont think we need to carry this discussion on.

I also appreciate that you do alot in the sport for your club or whatever, and so do many other people. We do it for our children that play and also for the love of the sport. Without players, coaches, referees and parents, we wouldnt have a sport. So we need to encourage people to take these courses and become coaches and referees. Seeing letters like that written into the forum just deter people from making those sacrifices, and they are sacrifices, as you would know there is alot that goes on behind the scenes that not everyone gets to see. Not everyone is perfect after all.

[robinfriday10]

can anyone explain why croyden are in the north in only under 11s??

[armchair critic]

Croydon will be included in the Under 11 North zone, with the Under 12, 13,
14 to be in the West zone, due to the limited player numbers in the 11 North
Zone.


That's from the guidance notes sent out to clubs.

[johnydep]

Croydon will be included in the Under 11 North zone, with the Under 12, 13,
14 to be in the West zone, due to the limited player numbers in the 11 North
Zone.


That's from the guidance notes sent out to clubs.

That's what I've been told. It doesn't make sense, I saw the U11 North zone and they had about 40 kids. Last year there were 5 zones, this year 4 and they have to split up clubs

I don't agree with it, not fair to the kids at Croydon.

[Covscum]

last year 6 ...East. South. North, West, Metro North, Country.

they've gotten rid of Metro North...what about Country?

[Željko Jurin]

Croydon will be included in the Under 11 North zone, with the Under 12, 13,
14 to be in the West zone, due to the limited player numbers in the 11 North
Zone.


That's from the guidance notes sent out to clubs.

That's what I've been told. It doesn't make sense, I saw the U11 North zone and they had about 40 kids. Last year there were 5 zones, this year 4 and they have to split up clubs

I don't agree with it, not fair to the kids at Croydon.

I've also seen the u/11 North coach's defence setup at his club team.........a very big worry !!!!

Your thoughts johny,seeing you're like me with develop, develop, develop and not win, win, win, and then seeing what he does with his defence ???