New Junior Structure 2014

[de niro]

No promotion and relegation for CHILDREN to worry and stress about, and no coaches and parents to go crazy about

Which comes to another question, why don't u18s and reserves have promotion and relegation and no one has ever questioned this seeing its so important ?

PS ... Wasn't I retired from this topic ?

That one's obvious, they're part of the senior squad, play on the same day, and it would be a logistical nightmare to have them anywhere else than following the seniors.

I hear what you're saying about promotion and relegation but, IMO, at some stage in their progression, it needs to be introduced. Maybe U13s is too early and we should move it to 14s or 15s?

Pretty thin list of benefits though. I need more convincing.

Your list of 'benefits' of staying with the current system is equally thin. Does removing promotion/relegation and the attendant 'win at all costs' approach outweigh the 'players develop better playing against better players' argument? Yes, in my book, by a significant margin.

[Željko Jurin]

That one's obvious, they're part of the senior squad, play on the same day, and it would be a logistical nightmare to have them anywhere else than following the seniors.

Whats the logistical difference between 18s, reserves and seniors playing at the same or differents venues, compared to 12s, 13s, 14s; or 14s, 15s, 16s?

[Nice One Cyril]

That one's obvious, they're part of the senior squad, play on the same day, and it would be a logistical nightmare to have them anywhere else than following the seniors.

Whats the logistical difference between 18s, reserves and seniors playing at the same or differents venues, compared to 12s, 13s, 14s; or 14s, 15s, 16s?

But they don't? Due to the amount of teams, most clubs will 3 or 4 junior games on a Sunday.

The seniors teams often share coaches, trainers, players etc.

You haven't thought this one out.

[Nice One Cyril]

No promotion and relegation for CHILDREN to worry and stress about, and no coaches and parents to go crazy about

Which comes to another question, why don't u18s and reserves have promotion and relegation and no one has ever questioned this seeing its so important ?

PS ... Wasn't I retired from this topic ?

That one's obvious, they're part of the senior squad, play on the same day, and it would be a logistical nightmare to have them anywhere else than following the seniors.

I hear what you're saying about promotion and relegation but, IMO, at some stage in their progression, it needs to be introduced. Maybe U13s is too early and we should move it to 14s or 15s?

Pretty thin list of benefits though. I need more convincing.

Your list of 'benefits' of staying with the current system is equally thin. Does removing promotion/relegation and the attendant 'win at all costs' approach outweigh the 'players develop better playing against better players' argument? Yes, in my book, by a significant margin.

But that's not a fault of the structure, more of the people involved. So change the people, not the structure.

I wouldn't be unhappy to see the zone approach extended to another year up as a trial.

[johnydep]

All junior teams of one club playing on the same day is best for - player development (watch next age group, assist next team), Club development (revenue raising), volunteers (all on same day, encourage more volunteers).

Below is an example, play with the KO times as you see fit -

Scenario A:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (one pitch)
U12 - 8:00am
U14 - 9:30am
U16 - 11:30am
or -
U12 - 8:00am
U13 - 9:30am
U14 - 11:30am
U15 - 1:30pm
U16 - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

With -
SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:00am
Reserves - 1:00pm
Seniors - 3:00pm

Scenario B:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (two pitches)
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U14JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U16JPL & JSL - 11:30am
or -
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U13JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U14JPL & JSL - 11:30am
U15JPL & JSL - 1:30pm
U16JPL & JSL - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:30am
Reserves - 1:30pm
Seniors - 3:30pm

Scenario C:
As above with different combinations of teams, location and times (depending on team availability at club).

[Nice One Cyril]

All junior teams of one club playing on the same day is best for - player development (watch next age group, assist next team), Club development (revenue raising), volunteers (all on same day, encourage more volunteers).

Below is an example, play with the KO times as you see fit -

Scenario A:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (one pitch)
U12 - 8:00am
U14 - 9:30am
U16 - 11:30am
or -
U12 - 8:00am
U13 - 9:30am
U14 - 11:30am
U15 - 1:30pm
U16 - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

With -
SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:00am
Reserves - 1:00pm
Seniors - 3:00pm

Scenario B:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (two pitches)
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U14JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U16JPL & JSL - 11:30am
or -
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U13JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U14JPL & JSL - 11:30am
U15JPL & JSL - 1:30pm
U16JPL & JSL - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:30am
Reserves - 1:30pm
Seniors - 3:30pm

Scenario C:
As above with different combinations of teams, location and times (depending on team availability at club).

In an ideal world, that would be great and less work for the volunteers as they'd get a week off when the teams were away, but I can't believe there's a club with a grass pitch in Adelaide that would cope with 5 games in a day (although it would have 2 weeks to recover).

[Mrs Red]

And dont forget SSF have to come into the equation also.

[Željko Jurin]

And don't forget most clubs have more then 2 pitches + a rooball at their disposal ....

[redfred]

What if clubs don't have teams in numerous age groups?

[johnydep]

What if clubs don't have teams in numerous age groups?

SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (one pitch)
U12 - 8:30am
U14 - 10:30am
U16 - 12:30am

[redfred]

what if state league clubs come up against opposition clubs three weeks in a row without a team in a certain age group.

[GaylyColouredStumps]

what if state league clubs come up against opposition clubs three weeks in a row without a team in a certain age group.

6 months to sort through details like these, then a proper proposal can be put forth to clubs before a final decision is made.

[Željko Jurin]

With the '000s of kids wanting to play the game in SA, and numerous clubs turning kids away at this time of year, if a club can't put 5x junior teams together, then they have internal problems as to why kids don't want to play for that particular club, and need to ask themselves what they are doing wrong

[Football Focus]

Sort venues within local community (schools) around the club with a 10 km radius. Work with the schools help them with coaching, send first team players to profile club offer free snag for game at weekend to boost attendance. Field JPL teams train 3-4 times a week with advanced coach at the going rate of around $700, field JSL teams with community coaches no kit costs wash and wear next week fees in line with E&D aound $250 all players get a gig, technical directors to drive.

[themessenger]

All junior teams of one club playing on the same day is best for - player development (watch next age group, assist next team), Club development (revenue raising), volunteers (all on same day, encourage more volunteers).

Below is an example, play with the KO times as you see fit -

Scenario A:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (one pitch)
U12 - 8:00am
U14 - 9:30am
U16 - 11:30am
or -
U12 - 8:00am
U13 - 9:30am
U14 - 11:30am
U15 - 1:30pm
U16 - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

With -
SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:00am
Reserves - 1:00pm
Seniors - 3:00pm

Scenario B:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (two pitches)
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U14JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U16JPL & JSL - 11:30am
or -
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U13JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U14JPL & JSL - 11:30am
U15JPL & JSL - 1:30pm
U16JPL & JSL - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:30am
Reserves - 1:30pm
Seniors - 3:30pm

Scenario C:
As above with different combinations of teams, location and times (depending on team availability at club).

In an ideal world, that would be great and less work for the volunteers as they'd get a week off when the teams were away, but I can't believe there's a club with a grass pitch in Adelaide that would cope with 5 games in a day (although it would have 2 weeks to recover).

An 8am kick off?

OMG! That means volunteers at the ground before 7am?

And clubs that have to travel long distances are leaving home at 5.30am to be at the ground an hour before kick off.

Double OMG!

[redfred]

Sundays
12s, 13s,14s home
15s, 16s,17s away

8.45,10.30,12.00

ssf on pitch 2,
jsa alternate week pitch 2

easy

[johnydep]

All junior teams of one club playing on the same day is best for - player development (watch next age group, assist next team), Club development (revenue raising), volunteers (all on same day, encourage more volunteers).

Below is an example, play with the KO times as you see fit -

Scenario A:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (one pitch)
U12 - 8:00am
U14 - 9:30am
U16 - 11:30am
or -
U12 - 8:00am
U13 - 9:30am
U14 - 11:30am
U15 - 1:30pm
U16 - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

With -
SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:00am
Reserves - 1:00pm
Seniors - 3:00pm

Scenario B:
SUNDAY JUNIOR GAMES (two pitches)
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U14JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U16JPL & JSL - 11:30am
or -
U12JPL & JSL - 8:00am
U13JPL & JSL - 9:30am
U14JPL & JSL - 11:30am
U15JPL & JSL - 1:30pm
U16JPL & JSL - 3:30pm
*U17 - Senior pitch

SATURDAY SENIOR GAMES
*U17 - 8:00am
U18 - 10:30am
Reserves - 1:30pm
Seniors - 3:30pm

Scenario C:
As above with different combinations of teams, location and times (depending on team availability at club).

In an ideal world, that would be great and less work for the volunteers as they'd get a week off when the teams were away, but I can't believe there's a club with a grass pitch in Adelaide that would cope with 5 games in a day (although it would have 2 weeks to recover).

An 8am kick off?

OMG! That means volunteers at the ground before 7am?

And clubs that have to travel long distances are leaving home at 5.30am to be at the ground an hour before kick off.

Double OMG!

OMG! Change the time that suits your club

Just for you:
CLUB WITH ONLY ONE PLAYABLE PITCH -

• U12* - 8:30am
  U13 - 9:45am
  U14* - 11:45am
  U15 - 1:45pm
  U16* - 3:45pm

* = Compulsory teams required. Other age groups optional.

[Sacred Noodle]

So much for all the anti restructure people going on about mass exodus from the State league clubs … from what I have heard a lot of juniors from newly promoted South Adelaide have moved onto or at least are trialling at other JPL Div 1 clubs … fact is this has always happened and always will under the current system..

How many of these kids may have stayed if the re-structure had of already been implemented? .. maybe a lot or maybe not much different to what is happening now.

Have also heard of kids going from PL clubs junior set ups to SL clubs Div B or C teams at the moment … maybe a lot of kids are a bit smarter than some parents and coaches on here are and are given credit for .. maybe its just some parents and coaches basking in the glory of finishing top, being promoted or avoiding relegation and the kids really just want to play, enjoy, be with their friends, learn and improve.

[spooky1972]

An 8am kick off?

OMG! That means volunteers at the ground before 7am?

And clubs that have to travel long distances are leaving home at 5.30am to be at the ground an hour before kick off.

Double OMG![/quote]

OMG! Change the time that suits your club

Just for you:
CLUB WITH ONLY ONE PLAYABLE PITCH -

• U12* - 8:30am
  U13 - 9:45am
  U14* - 11:45am
  U15 - 1:45pm
  U16* - 3:45pm

* = Compulsory teams required. Other age groups optional.[/quote]

but wouldn't the different age groups be playing the same club? why would the another aged team want to change their nice casual drive from gawler to seaford to an even nicer casual drive at 530am? vice versa - let alone seaford to pirie.

oh you mean restructure the entire SL kick offs as 90% of games are an hour drive.

[johnydep]

An 8am kick off?

OMG! That means volunteers at the ground before 7am?

And clubs that have to travel long distances are leaving home at 5.30am to be at the ground an hour before kick off.

Double OMG!

OMG! Change the time that suits your club

Just for you:
CLUB WITH ONLY ONE PLAYABLE PITCH -

• U12* - 8:30am
  U13 - 9:45am
  U14* - 11:45am
  U15 - 1:45pm
  U16* - 3:45pm

* = Compulsory teams required. Other age groups optional.

but wouldn't the different age groups be playing the same club? why would the another aged team want to change their nice casual drive from gawler to seaford to an even nicer casual drive at 530am? vice versa - let alone seaford to pirie.

oh you mean restructure the entire SL kick offs as 90% of games are an hour drive.

Sorry, caffeine hasn't kicked in yet - please explain your point!

EDIT: Just got what you were trying to say (I think) - "why would a club agree to a time change, during the season, that another club has requested?" Correct me if I'm wrong with my interpretation.

That's not my point, what I'm saying is that clubs have an input to the structure of the league when the FFSA release their draft fixtures. With a new system (if ever implemented), I'm sure that the FFSA would discuss KO times with the submissions from each club.

[Željko Jurin]

maybe a lot of kids are a bit smarter than some parents and coaches on here are and are given credit for .... maybe its just some parents and coaches basking in the glory of finishing top, being promoted or avoiding relegation, and the kids really just want to play, enjoy, be with their friends, learn and improve.

Bingo !

[Jett]

the trouble with ffsa referees is, they just don't show up at games. especially jsl games

[magnet]

maybe its just some parents and coaches basking in the glory of finishing top, being promoted or avoiding relegation and the kids really just want to play, enjoy, be with their friends, learn and improve.

Classic example of this on Wednesday night when parents were told that a decision will not be made until next year as to which team their child plays in. It is very hard to select players ability based on two one hour trial sessions. They all want their kids to play in the JPL team but is it better as an U12 to enjoy the less competitive JSL and maybe see more of the ball?

[redfred]

para hills

u13B
u14A
u15B
u16B
u17B

changed structure would have helped

[Nice One Cyril]

para hills

u13B
u14A
u15B
u16B
u17B

changed structure would have helped

Helped who? And how?

[redfred]

south adelaide

u13B
u14A
u15C
u16C
u17N/A

[Nice One Cyril]

south adelaide

u13B
u14A
u15C
u16C
u17N/A

Is this a code of some sort? Should I be contacting ASIO?

[redfred]

White City


U13C
U14B
U15B
U16B
U17B

[Željko Jurin]

Yes some PL clubs would have been advantaged with the new structure.
But if you do your maths, there are 14 PL clubs in seniors, but the junior leagues are 1 x 12 teams, and 3 x 10 teams, so of course some will be 'B' teams, where else do the remaining 4 teams come from ?

redfred, now please show us which SL clubs would have been so badly affected had the new structure come into place ....

PS .... 17s dont count, they already have no relegation/promotion, and half the clubs (PL or SL) dont have an u17 team

[Steve#4]

Read this on the Rochedale Rovers site.....Seems NPL in Brisbane is having teething problems as well.
I like the system on the surface though, Clubs with licenses having catchment areas and working with the clubs in that area.

http://www.rochedalerovers.com/images/s ... rikers.pdf