Girls playing with boys

[Abra1]

Any thoughts on how long girls should be kept playing with boys? Is there an age they have to switch to an all girls team?

[pc9999]

Until they're uncomfortable.

My daughter played u12 boys then moved on to girls comp
she then played 1 yr u13s, 1 yr u15 then to reserves.
She was being given stick by a couple of the boys and wanted to move to a girls team.

I think the above path is fairly common.

My niece moved very early U11s (she was 9) again it was a case of not being comfortable in a boys team.

[Abra1]

Thanks for the response. She's got a few more years with the boys then

[ZZZZ]

we have a girl playing in our u16 boys team and she is doing quite well and learning alot from the coach and the club technical director

[SAD GAL]

This has been dealt with before from your perspective and from the perspective of the boys ie not wanting to have a girls team in their comp.

The advice I gave before were from my experiences and observations.

Keep your daughter in the boys comp forever. Failing that. Keep her there as long as she is able to.

The girl/women’s comp will (if she is reasonable ability and passion) destroy her abilities and drag her down to the lowest common denominator. Very low and uninspiring level. I’d like to hear if this is incorrect.

If she’s capable she will gravitate to the prems league because amongst the poor standard of comp (generally) this is the only place she’d have SOME decent players. Sad because she is at a great risk of losing her skills and abilities And risks getting hurt by the hacks.

Clubs and FFSA will spruik that the comp is great and it’s the only pathway to get to National league and id for Matildas. Again. Sad but true. It’s the only thing that keeps them relevant. Keep in mind SA has had an appalling record on getting players to play for their country. Not since Alagich or Stocco has it been as good.

[here we go]

There’s no clear evidence that playing with boys helps long term development. There are girls who have played with boys and are now playing with girls in different teams in the league. These girls are no further developed than some girls who have never played with boys.

Whilst I'm a big fan of girls playing with boys to further develop their football capabilities, I am not convinced that it works in all cases.

The best players shine whatever situation they are placed in. These rare players don't pass us by very often and should be challenged by playing in more competitive situations. To find more of these players, participation numbers in the game need to increase.

A great player’s strengths stem from superior mental and physical ability.

To sum up I feel the player needs to be really happy in the environment they are in so as to be the best they can be.

[SAD GAL]

The context is being a boy's context vs in a girls' context. There is NO benefit of transitioning to a girls' comp. POLES apart. a 14 year old will get thrown into a prems team (because she will come across with far greater skills than a product of the girl's scene). How can it be ? Given that prems is becoming the div2 of years’ gone by you cannot argue that they (some) do not benefit from being in a boys team.

I challenge you to find anyone who has said the move from Boys to Girls has been the greatest (or beneficial thing for the girl). Zero.


quote="here we go"]There’s no clear evidence that playing with boys helps long term development. There are girls who have played with boys and are now playing with girls in different teams in the league. These girls are no further developed than some girls who have never played with boys.

Whilst I'm a big fan of girls playing with boys to further develop their football capabilities, I am not convinced that it works in all cases.

The best players shine whatever situation they are placed in. These rare players don't pass us by very often and should be challenged by playing in more competitive situations. To find more of these players, participation numbers in the game need to increase.

A great player’s strengths stem from superior mental and physical ability.

To sum up I feel the player needs to be really happy in the environment they are in so as to be the best they can be.[/quote]

[here we go]

SAD GAL you are spot on, there is no benefit going from Boys to Girls competitions as playing with boys is much more intense as you get older. Could there be a social interaction element in their decision to move into girls teams? The level of the Premier competition has dropped for many reasons, one being players leaving the game, over the last few years. There are also some great players playing in lower divisions.

Lots of the best players have played with boys early on, but no one mentions those that started playing with boys and haven’t developed when compared to the success stories of this model. Does the coach make a difference? Genetics? Mental application?

My point is this, that there are girls playing in the girls’ competition that have played junior football with boys. These girls for differing reasons have transitioned to the girls’ competition. The girls are now playing with players that have not played with boys and are no better than their team mates.
To expand on my point not every boy playing the game is a superstar either, and they play with boys. The challenge for all players is first to enjoy the environment they are in and secondly be the best they can be.

Another important agenda item for the game is that we increase its participation. The competition can only get stronger with more players pushing each other to be the best they can be, whether playing with boys or girls. More participation could force governments to assist with infrastructure development.

When was the last time you heard the governing body mentioning “record levels of girls playing the game?” On this point no news is bad news. Surely this has to be a significant KPI and a sales pitch that can be used to entice new players.

Not everyone will play for the Matildas, some don’t even want to. They just want to play football. I think we should start with getting as many people playing and not leaving the game, and through hard work the cream will rise, whether playing with boys or girls.

Have a passion for the game and the best reward will be playing the game!

[Unretired]

Let her play with the boys for as long as she can....

[Left Wing Back]

My Daughter crossed over in under 10's because she made the decision she wanted to play with friends that she could play with when she was an adult. She wanted the social and fun side of soccer and was not interested in the top level of football. She is not a super star but ask her to play any position and she can, she crosses with both feet, plays Left Back and Left attack as a right footer with a huge let cross. But she just wants the fun of playing with friends. The answer you have been getting is based on what is the best for your daughter to get to the matilda's, but it is more a question is what she would like to do. My Daughter loves the womens competition but thts what she wants.

[paul merson]

If the new NPL agreements and demands are signed by the SANPL clubs this change over could be made much easier, although is it good for Womens football?

Will it be taken seriously or just percieved as a burden for mens football and treated that way?

What is going to happen to all current womens clubs not affiliated to a SANPL club?

A lot being decided this week I believe.

[johnydep]

If the new NPL agreements and demands are signed by the SANPL clubs this change over could be made much easier, although is it good for Womens football?

Will it be taken seriously or just percieved as a burden for mens football and treated that way?

What is going to happen to all current womens clubs not affiliated to a SANPL club?

A lot being decided this week I believe.

This is what happens when the longest 'long term planning' is only 12 months.

[SAD GAL]

Left Wing Back…..I respect your position and that your daughter should be enjoying the game first and foremost. That’s why they play and that’s why the end up leaving (when they no longer enjoy the game)

If she gets the itch to strive for a higher level of competition ie state, national, Matildas (whatever level) then its imperative she have the best foundations before she leaps into the girls comp. Otherwise she may get a chance to play at State or get a call up to train with the National team but that’s where it will end.

At some point girls do dream of achieving the ultimate. Unfortunately the women’s league doesn’t provide anything near what she needs.

Past players in the Matildas (from SA) have either left SA or had played with the boys in junior comps and or had to get permission to play in the men’s comp when older.

Names like Alagich, Stocco, Balomenos etc are key examples of what they needed to do to get on the national teams.

As I said I respect your point of view but you will save much frustration and disappointment if you do not consider the years ahead.

[paul merson]

If the new NPL agreements and demands are signed by the SANPL clubs this change over could be made much easier, although is it good for Womens football?

Will it be taken seriously or just percieved as a burden for mens football and treated that way?

What is going to happen to all current womens clubs not affiliated to a SANPL club?

A lot being decided this week I believe.

This is what happens when the longest 'long term planning' is only 12 months.

I believe this will SANPL clubs 5 years to have all complete but there are short term targets that need to be met, the big victorian clubs (Melb Knights, Greengully ect) have already said no so I'd be surprised if all SA teams will, but means a big reform thats going to inpact womens football massively you would think.

[M@rvin]

If the new NPL agreements and demands are signed by the SANPL clubs this change over could be made much easier, although is it good for Womens football?

Will it be taken seriously or just percieved as a burden for mens football and treated that way?

What is going to happen to all current womens clubs not affiliated to a SANPL club?

A lot being decided this week I believe.

It will not be mandatory for womens clubs/teams to be attached to mens clubs, it is only a recomendation.
Lets face it unless the mens teams change and allocate equal resources to the womens/girls teams none of the womens clubs will return to mens clubs.

[paul merson]

If the new NPL agreements and demands are signed by the SANPL clubs this change over could be made much easier, although is it good for Womens football?

Will it be taken seriously or just percieved as a burden for mens football and treated that way?

What is going to happen to all current womens clubs not affiliated to a SANPL club?

A lot being decided this week I believe.

It will not be mandatory for womens clubs/teams to be attached to mens clubs, it is only a recomendation.
Lets face it unless the mens teams change and allocate equal resources to the womens/girls teams none of the womens clubs will return to mens clubs.

It will be mandatory for men's clubs to have 4 women's teams with in 5 years if they agree to be in the NPL, also have 20% of coaches female.

If they do this what's going to be left for women's clubs that aren't involved in this?
Social football?

[Gabon]

One of my best/toughest opponents when playing juniors (25 years ago) was a girl called Kristy/Kirsty who I think played for Elizabeth Vale. She also played for the select side when we played against each other for our select zone teams at Duncan Anderson Reserve and can say that throughout my juniors she was by far the best and toughest opponent (she was right back and I left wing) that I had played against.

So in short I say if they (girls) are good enough let them play (and beat) the boys as long as they can.

[Leppskiii]

That would be Kristy Moore who has had an amazingly successful career overseas and did come back as a guest player for the lady reds last season!

[Gabon]

That would be Kristy Moore who has had an amazingly successful career overseas and did come back as a guest player for the lady reds last season!

Didn't know that, thanks. Great to hear she went on and had a successful career from the game

[Left Wing Back]

SAD Gal the elite players are taken out of the girls league and put in the FFSA teams in prem competition and NTC and skillaroos in the boys to advance there skills. If you are identified then you go down that path for state selection etc. Also when the SA made it to representative level the womens competition was so far from now and the boys leagues were a must. The structure is getting there. You unfortunately have a Jadded view and reading your posts is the worst part about the womens games, no positive, all doom and Gloom, such a shame

[SAD GAL]

LWB...Thanks for your appraisal of the scene and referring to em as a purveyor of doom and gloom. However, I don't agree and I suspect many others here on the forum have voiced their founded disapproval.

Doesn’t matter how the (FFSA) endeavour to shift the goalposts or blind the football community with vision…its just that. A vision. Step behind the veil and you will note that it’s a case of “kick and hope” rather than confidence that it will work.

Elite programs are words. SASI was Govt. funded and resourced. Debate over the head coach was discussed in this forum. That too had very limited success. Players getting to training camps however, quickly returned because they were not and I repeat NOT up to standard and were injured .

This latest iteration will also endure criticism and be supported by parents wanting to believe that its “the right path”. I hope it works. However, all I think that will eventuate is a better standard of player for the local prems.

Shall we leave it to the test of time and revisit this topic? I suspect if I go back in the archives in 2 years time, I will be found to be correct.. SAD as it is, the female football scene needs a stronger junior league for it to thrive and prosper at the prems and elite levels. That’s why the girls junior league should be abolished and somehow, thee players should be a part of a co-ed system before they pair of to a single sex environment.

The women’s football scene (I suspect) has the lowest retention of senior players in it ranks. Players whom have left and will not return. Players that should’ve been the backbone and role models of up and coming juniors.

[here we go]

Does the inclusion of girls in boys teams in other sports produce better players? Has anyone inside knowledge on how other sports operate? (i.e. basketball and hockey).

I still beleive the best players are born that way and work extremely hard to be the best!

We should all aim to be the best we can be and enjoy what we do if you walk off after any game or training session and given it your all, makes you elite!

[SAD GAL]

Other female mainstream sports do NOT have the absurd situation where a half decent player is fast tracked (majority) into the prems to play alongside many players oif varying and often questionable ability.

Mainstream sports have a strong junior set up and where there is a clear pathway to the senior teams. Women’s football does NOT function in that way.

If elite is your problem then I suggest that the FFSA omits that work because it is being misinterpreted by the majority of players in the league AND misrepresents what it can deliver.

Plain and simple. Don’t be fooled by what you think it’s about.

A boys comp has a far better and more defined and tested structure that ensures that players being pushed into a mens/senior league is the exception and not the rule.

[johnydep]

Other female mainstream sports do NOT have the absurd situation where a half decent player is fast tracked (majority) into the prems to play alongside many players oif varying and often questionable ability...

Absurd... very appropriate.

My daughter was told, after her stint in the U13 State squad, to find a spot in a Women's Reserve or Premier team.

[Lucas Leiva]

Other female mainstream sports do NOT have the absurd situation where a half decent player is fast tracked (majority) into the prems to play alongside many players oif varying and often questionable ability...

Absurd... very appropriate.

My daughter was told, after her stint in the U13 State squad, to find a spot in a Women's Reserve or Premier team.

I think this is absurd also, but I think it deserves to be put into context also.

Many Men's 1st teams training squads will feature 14-16 year olds getting a taste of senior action. The difference is that if they drop back to Ressies or U18s they'll still be challenged (due to sheer numbers of decent players) and develop. Maybe not so much the case with Womens.

[paul merson]

Other female mainstream sports do NOT have the absurd situation where a half decent player is fast tracked (majority) into the prems to play alongside many players oif varying and often questionable ability...

Absurd... very appropriate.

My daughter was told, after her stint in the U13 State squad, to find a spot in a Women's Reserve or Premier team.

I think this is absurd also, but I think it deserves to be put into context also.

Many Men's 1st teams training squads will feature 14-16 year olds getting a taste of senior action. The difference is that if they drop back to Ressies or U18s they'll still be challenged (due to sheer numbers of decent players) and develop. Maybe not so much the case with Womens.

I cant say Ive had any 14 year olds train with us, 16 or 17 but never 14

[here we go]

Other female mainstream sports do NOT have the absurd situation where a half decent player is fast tracked (majority) into the prems to play alongside many players oif varying and often questionable ability...

Absurd... very appropriate.

My daughter was told, after her stint in the U13 State squad, to find a spot in a Women's Reserve or Premier team.

Who in their right mind would leave a player thinking that they should be playing at this level?

I'm certain you will find this strategy on page 2 of the Strategic Plan for the Growth of Womens Football :?

[Lucas Leiva]

I think this is absurd also, but I think it deserves to be put into context also.

Many Men's 1st teams training squads will feature 14-16 year olds getting a taste of senior action. The difference is that if they drop back to Ressies or U18s they'll still be challenged (due to sheer numbers of decent players) and develop. Maybe not so much the case with Womens.

I cant say Ive had any 14 year olds train with us, 16 or 17 but never 14

I did a pre-season as a 14 year old, remember Troisi as a 15 year old at training...but I think perhaps I did exaggerate a little (given it only seems to be an exception).

[Left Wing Back]

build a strong league ------ you must play prems or reserves ------- so what about the rest who are not at that standard or who struggle to play with boys. Are you saying there is no place in football for you because you do not fit the mould or not up to scratch. Shame Shame you need a competition for all to play and fast track or accelerate those that stand out. FFSA is doing this slowly but surely by having it's own prems team, holding it's own. coached a couple that are there and they are doing it well as our club doesn't offer prems or reserves it is the best avenue.

My experience, spoke to a player who was destined for high level and went to STIC and was told by james and Shaun (northern STIC Coaches) "you must be with the boys to progress your soccer", 6th round knee strain and never to return to football. As she was told that's what you have to do and once injured she was basically sidelined by the coach and even after a phonecall and chat will not return to either the womens or mens game. Such a shame for a bright future star. In the womens the injury would not have been a setback to her career not the finale. The trainers at our club would have had a program and plan to get it right and out playing again, but the boy team did not give two hoots because she was not the best player, As she was there to develop. True story and it broke my heart as when I coached her in under 11's I think look at that spark she love the game. Isn't keeping girls/women in football the key to a strong league?

[Worthless Gobemouche]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6654087261

Interesting that of all the women who have played in the boys competition, according to this article only 2 have managed to take it to this level. Credence to Emma Checker, she's got this far without the need to play regularly against the boys ( other than her NTC games in the boys comp ) so maybe the requirement to play against the boys isn't necessarily required