Scholarships and Sponsorships

[BornStriker]

Over heard (eavesdropping) a few coaches this morning discussing the need/possibility of offering scholarships/sponsorships to under privileged kids with tremendous potential but no financial backing. This particular discussion was referring to the influx of African children in the northern suburbs, and the untapped potential these kids possess but lack the funds to play at Federation clubs.

My questions are, do any clubs provide support or scholarships for talented juniors struggling to pay their fees? If so, is their an allocation per team? How do clubs cover these costs? How to other parents feel about it?

[AL K HOLIC]

Some clubs have no choice, either cover these kids or don't have the squad.
Some are exceptional talents and in some cases the club is happy to cover it.
Some coaches do their own fundraising to cover individuals.
Most clubs would do their own fundraising to put aside for these cases.

Heres some questions that need to be considered about this;

What happens if the boy leaves the club? Can the club tell a player yeah we will cover your fees, then after 1 or more years the player decides to move clubs, can the club say, 'oh if that's the case you us $600' and place the kid unfinancial?

Does the FFSA have any records protecting these kids in such a case?
Does the club have any protection or ownership of these players?

The FFSA should possibly think about these issues, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before such a case falls on their desk.

[BornStriker]

Some clubs have no choice, either cover these kids or don't have the squad.
Some are exceptional talents and in some cases the club is happy to cover it.
Some coaches do their own fundraising to cover individuals.
Most clubs would do their own fundraising to put aside for these cases.

Heres some questions that need to be considered about this;

What happens if the boy leaves the club? Can the club tell a player yeah we will cover your fees, then after 1 or more years the player decides to move clubs, can the club say, 'oh if that's the case you us $600' and place the kid unfinancial?

Does the FFSA have any records protecting these kids in such a case?
Does the club have any protection or ownership of these players?

The FFSA should possibly think about these issues, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before such a case falls on their desk.

Excellent points, and something to take into consideration. Until kids are put on youth contracts, clubs will have no control over these situations if the player decides to leave the club. They can't make him un-financial, but with the soccer community in Adelaide being rather small, bad reputations can impact just as much.

Thanks for the input.

[AL K HOLIC]

Some clubs have no choice, either cover these kids or don't have the squad.
Some are exceptional talents and in some cases the club is happy to cover it.
Some coaches do their own fundraising to cover individuals.
Most clubs would do their own fundraising to put aside for these cases.

Heres some questions that need to be considered about this;

What happens if the boy leaves the club? Can the club tell a player yeah we will cover your fees, then after 1 or more years the player decides to move clubs, can the club say, 'oh if that's the case you us $600' and place the kid unfinancial?

Does the FFSA have any records protecting these kids in such a case?
Does the club have any protection or ownership of these players?

The FFSA should possibly think about these issues, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before such a case falls on their desk.

Excellent points, and something to take into consideration. Until kids are put on youth contracts, clubs will have no control over these situations if the player decides to leave the club. They can't make him un-financial, but with the soccer community in Adelaide being rather small, bad reputations can impact just as much.

Thanks for the input.

You sure about that? I agree I'm sure such an act would not help memberships, but is it not possible, or not advised.

[johnydep]

More importantly; a debate needs to be started on the subject of coaches targeting players to join a team/club.

In the past two weeks, I've had parents talk to me about their young child being 'talked' to by coaches of other clubs. Coaches telling kids how good they are, and that they'd "be better in a team with ......", "come to our club and we'll develop you better....," etc. If the coach has a son at the same school, or team members, they are used to pressure the player to make a change.

To me, this is wrong. And verging on a duty of care issue, even stalking. I'm talking about 11, 12 and 13 year old kids.

We had one issue of this early on in the season, the kid caved to the pressure. We let him go, and a week later he wanted to come back. We had to go to a FFSA Hearing and pay part of the kids fee to help him out; only because he'd been with us so long and is like family.

The FFSA needs to look into this behaviour and make a decision on whether it is a 'duty of care issue'.

[AL K HOLIC]

That has been going on for ever, even your club spoke to players I know on numerous occasions throughout this year, the question is what is to much I suppose and how young is to young to start it.

I must admit the rumours I am hearing there was a huge movement of players in this years U14, (2013 U15) at many clubs. At the end of the day how hard is it to say no, most times you would find these players/parents play the coach/club with hmmm, maybe, and we will think about it, instead of saying, NO.

[AL K HOLIC]

I don't mean that as a dig at JD, but let's be honest, when the coach is at the club bringing them in, clubs could care less, yet when it's reversed and they're taking them, the same club crys foul.

[johnydep]

I don't mean that as a dig at JD, but let's be honest, when the coach is at the club bringing them in, clubs could care less, yet when it's reversed and they're taking them, the same club crys foul.

Wrong. Players come and players go, we let them go with our best wishes. When they come they have to trial like everyone else, and if they are equal to our players they don't get selected. Our coaches are told that the club does not condone calling players, and we will not accept a player without a trial involving the Development Coaches.

Do you not see something wrong with a coach calling players and trying to entice them to another club? Or sending players from their team to try and persuade the player to move, with promises?

You're asking the same question "What happens if the boy leaves the club? Can the club tell a player yeah we will cover your fees, then after 1 or more years the player decides to move clubs, can the club say, 'oh if that's the case you us $600' and place the kid financial? "

This is another form of getting kids over, and locking them in. Like I said before; one of our players had this pressure put on, and when he wanted to leave he couldn't because the FFSA registration showed him as "not financial" (owes money).

Just so it's clear; I don't care if kids leave. We advise parents but we always tell them to go with what they feel is best, because at the end of the day if you tell them and something goes wrong it falls at your feet.
If a coach knows a parent and discusses movement to another club - no problems, go for it.
But when a coach keeps calling and puts pressure on a kid to do something - that is wrong.

[AL K HOLIC]

coaches do not march parents and players with loaded shotguns to trials let's remember that. Everyone chooses and can say no or yes.

Promises are always broken and I'm sure coaches and clubs are guilty of it yes.

Again this as not an attack to you or your club because everyone does it to a point.

[BornStriker]

I don't have any issues with coaches approaching players from other clubs and inviting them out to trial, but hounding and pressuring young kids shouldn't be allowed. Most kids try out at several clubs each season these days, so many clubs have a selection pool of 25-30 minimum, which they should be able to pick a squad from.

A thought; if you were a coach of a leading federation club with a good junior set up and played a side of lesser ability and they had 1 stand out player who you felt had the potential to make it, would you speak to him about coming to your side and developing in a better environment, providing exposure to greater development, facilities and team mates?

[johnydep]

coaches do not march parents and players with loaded shotguns to trials let's remember that. Everyone chooses and can say no or yes.

Promises are always broken and I'm sure coaches and clubs are guilty of it yes.

Again this as not an attack to you or your club because everyone does it to a point.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think that a coach contacting a 11, 12, 13 year old and his parents more than three times is a worry. For a coach to also send other kids to try and influence or change a decision is also a worry.

Maybe it's just me, I would never tell a player to change clubs, or call his parents about it. I'd never send my kids or the players in my team to persuade a player to join my team.

Each to their own.

[johnydep]

I don't have any issues with coaches approaching players from other clubs and inviting them out to trial, but hounding and pressuring young kids shouldn't be allowed. Most kids try out at several clubs each season these days, so many clubs have a selection pool of 25-30 minimum, which they should be able to pick a squad from.

A thought; if you were a coach of a leading federation club with a good junior set up and played a side of lesser ability and they had 1 stand out player who you felt had the potential to make it, would you speak to him about coming to your side and developing in a better environment, providing exposure to greater development, facilities and team mates?

If a player came out to trials and showed exceptional talent, yes discuss the options with the player and parent. But be real about it, there is only limited potential for a career in football in Australia. We keep our discussions in terms of moving up the age groups as the player develops, with the ultimate goal of making it into the Senior teams. It's best to under promise and over deliver.

[Faith No More]

did'nt one of your coaches go to Adelaide City recently JD ?
I'm sure he would have talked to SOME of his former Kings players, given they are requiring more players ( as per a recent forum )?
i think tapping up kids is disgraceful, let kids come out to trials & promote your trials heavily so you get as many kids as possible out there.

[AL K HOLIC]

did'nt one of your coaches go to Adelaide City recently JD ?
I'm sure he would have talked to SOME of his former Kings players, given they are requiring more players ( as per a recent forum )?
i think tapping up kids is disgraceful, let kids come out to trials & promote your trials heavily so you get as many kids as possible out there.

The same for the AC coach that went to WA players followed him too, some I'm sure he asked, some just arrive, however these are not 11/12/13, they are U15, so I have to agree with JD for those ages. However at 14/15/16 I think this is very common, but again if the coach is told NO, he would end it, but while a player is umming and urrmming of course they will keep mentioning it.

[mancity]

The idea of coaches poaching players from other clubs is disgraceful at junior level.
In doing so they are indicating that they are solely playing to win. What happens to little Johnny that has been at the club for 5 or 10 years who gets booted out so this poached player can fit in the squad.
It will bite the club in the arse eventually as little Johnny is more likley to go on and play seniors for the club as they love and have loyalty to the club, whereas the new star is more likley to switch clubs again.
In district cricket no club or coach can approach a player under the age of 18.
Any player wishing to change clubs must gain a clearance, which will involve speaking to childs parents about why they wish to change clubs. Unless it is a legimiate reason, the clearance wont be granted.
Quite simple really.

[90mins]

What is poaching?

Is this a coach moving clubs and letting his/her squad know they are welcome to trial?
Is this players asking the coach, I heard you are moving can I have the trial dates?
Is this a coach approaching a player after a game and saying hey come trial at our club next year?
Is this a player making contact with the coach and stating he may be considered in a move?
Is this putting a flyer in his letterbox?
Is this sending out emails to parents/players letting them know the interest or trial dates?
Is this a FFSA development coach approaching players at these development squads asking hey you should trial at their domestic club?

What are the actions of POACHING?

Do we need a club protection scheme, for the clubs who develop these kids, for the big clubs to swoop when they are ready?
Should a new club be forced to pay a compensation as such to the old club?

Surely players and clubs are free to discuss whatever they want, with whomever they want, and in the reverse they are also free to explain go take a ride.

Would love to see the data of small clubs losing talent to bigger clubs vs the opposite.

[johnydep]

The idea of coaches poaching players from other clubs is disgraceful at junior level.
In doing so they are indicating that they are solely playing to win. What happens to little Johnny that has been at the club for 5 or 10 years who gets booted out so this poached player can fit in the squad.
It will bite the club in the muscat eventually as little Johnny is more likely to go on and play seniors for the club as they love and have loyalty to the club, whereas the new star is more likely to switch clubs again.
In district cricket no club or coach can approach a player under the age of 18.
Any player wishing to change clubs must gain a clearance, which will involve speaking to child's parents about why they wish to change clubs. Unless it is a legitimate reason, the clearance wont be granted.
Quite simple really.

Good post.

[paul merson]

I don't have any issues with coaches approaching players from other clubs and inviting them out to trial, but hounding and pressuring young kids shouldn't be allowed. Most kids try out at several clubs each season these days, so many clubs have a selection pool of 25-30 minimum, which they should be able to pick a squad from.

A thought; if you were a coach of a leading federation club with a good junior set up and played a side of lesser ability and they had 1 stand out player who you felt had the potential to make it, would you speak to him about coming to your side and developing in a better environment, providing exposure to greater development, facilities and team mates?

If a player came out to trials and showed exceptional talent, yes discuss the options with the player and parent. But be real about it, there is only limited potential for a career in football in Australia. We keep our discussions in terms of moving up the age groups as the player develops, with the ultimate goal of making it into the Senior teams. It's best to under promise and over deliver.

Do you think this is going to get worse with the implimentation of the seniors point system and the value of a player playing 4 years in your juniors increasing immensely?

Junior players will be listed in senior squads to wipe points off senior players, so the hunt to get good under 13's to your club to register 4 years of juniors prior to hitting seniors could become ver valuable to clubs.

[jamannic]

More importantly; a debate needs to be started on the subject of coaches targeting players to join a team/club.

In the past two weeks, I've had parents talk to me about their young child being 'talked' to by coaches of other clubs. Coaches telling kids how good they are, and that they'd "be better in a team with ......", "come to our club and we'll develop you better....," etc. If the coach has a son at the same school, or team members, they are used to pressure the player to make a change.

To me, this is wrong. And verging on a duty of care issue, even stalking. I'm talking about 11, 12 and 13 year old kids.

We had one issue of this early on in the season, the kid caved to the pressure. We let him go, and a week later he wanted to come back. We had to go to a FFSA Hearing and pay part of the kids fee to help him out; only because he'd been with us so long and is like family.

The FFSA needs to look into this behaviour and make a decision on whether it is a 'duty of care issue'.

JD, I'm not trying to be critical of Croydon as I think it is a good club, but your new U13 coach is doing exacting what you are saying is a disgrace, he is one of the FFSA STIC coaches for this age group who is calling the boys that didn't make the skillaroos and trying to entice them to Croydon with promises that he will develop them in skillaroo players. Now these boys are also tied to other clubs but he doesn't have a problem with it, maybe you should sort out your own situation first, where is the duty of care from this coach?

[AL K HOLIC]

More importantly; a debate needs to be started on the subject of coaches targeting players to join a team/club.

In the past two weeks, I've had parents talk to me about their young child being 'talked' to by coaches of other clubs. Coaches telling kids how good they are, and that they'd "be better in a team with ......", "come to our club and we'll develop you better....," etc. If the coach has a son at the same school, or team members, they are used to pressure the player to make a change.

To me, this is wrong. And verging on a duty of care issue, even stalking. I'm talking about 11, 12 and 13 year old kids.

We had one issue of this early on in the season, the kid caved to the pressure. We let him go, and a week later he wanted to come back. We had to go to a FFSA Hearing and pay part of the kids fee to help him out; only because he'd been with us so long and is like family.

The FFSA needs to look into this behaviour and make a decision on whether it is a 'duty of care issue'.

JD, I'm not trying to be critical of Croydon as I think it is a good club, but your new U13 coach is doing exacting what you are saying is a disgrace, he is one of the FFSA STIC coaches for this age group who is calling the boys that didn't make the skillaroos and trying to entice them to Croydon with promises that he will develop them in skillaroo players. Now these boys are also tied to other clubs but he doesn't have a problem with it, maybe you should sort out your own situation first, where is the duty of care from this coach?

exactly, read below

[johnydep]

JD, I'm not trying to be critical of Croydon as I think it is a good club, but your new U13 coach is doing exacting what you are saying is a disgrace, he is one of the FFSA STIC coaches for this age group who is calling the boys that didn't make the skillaroos and trying to entice them to Croydon with promises that he will develop them in skillaroo players. Now these boys are also tied to other clubs but he doesn't have a problem with it, maybe you should sort out your own situation first, where is the duty of care from this coach?

Are you sure of that, do you know all the facts?

He is new to the club, so he is yet to learn our ways. And if you read my posts carefully:
"I think that a coach contacting a 11, 12, 13 year old and his parents more than three times is a worry. For a coach to also send other kids to try and influence or change a decision is also a worry."
And:
"The FFSA needs to look into this behaviour and make a decision on whether it is a 'duty of care issue'."

Nothing makes this right, and the only way to stop it is for the FFSA to bring in some regulations. I personally do not like the idea of coaches contacting young players on a continuous basis to change clubs.

Croydon Kings FC follow all the rules in place, if a coach or player makes a mistake the club explains the rules and ensures that it does not happen again.

[Faith No More]

JD, I'm not trying to be critical of Croydon as I think it is a good club, but your new U13 coach is doing exacting what you are saying is a disgrace, he is one of the FFSA STIC coaches for this age group who is calling the boys that didn't make the skillaroos and trying to entice them to Croydon with promises that he will develop them in skillaroo players. Now these boys are also tied to other clubs but he doesn't have a problem with it, maybe you should sort out your own situation first, where is the duty of care from this coach?

Are you sure of that, do you know all the facts?

He is new to the club, so he is yet to learn our ways. And if you read my posts carefully:
"I think that a coach contacting a 11, 12, 13 year old and his parents more than three times is a worry. For a coach to also send other kids to try and influence or change a decision is also a worry."
And:
"The FFSA needs to look into this behaviour and make a decision on whether it is a 'duty of care issue'."

Nothing makes this right, and the only way to stop it is for the FFSA to bring in some regulations. I personally do not like the idea of coaches contacting young players on a continuous basis to change clubs.

Croydon Kings FC follow all the rules in place, if a coach or player makes a mistake the club explains the rules and ensures that it does not happen again.

hmmmm

[Faith No More]

What is poaching?

Is this a coach moving clubs and letting his/her squad know they are welcome to trial?
Is this players asking the coach, I heard you are moving can I have the trial dates?
Is this a coach approaching a player after a game and saying hey come trial at our club next year?
Is this a player making contact with the coach and stating he may be considered in a move?
Is this putting a flyer in his letterbox?
Is this sending out emails to parents/players letting them know the interest or trial dates?
Is this a FFSA development coach approaching players at these development squads asking hey you should trial at their domestic club?

What are the actions of POACHING?

Do we need a club protection scheme, for the clubs who develop these kids, for the big clubs to swoop when they are ready?
Should a new club be forced to pay a compensation as such to the old club?

Surely players and clubs are free to discuss whatever they want, with whomever they want, and in the reverse they are also free to explain go take a ride.

Would love to see the data of small clubs losing talent to bigger clubs vs the opposite.

excellent comment.
But some coaches want that ticker tape parade down Rundle mall at the end of the season......
Have been at a so-called BIG club & also at a smaller club, smaller clubs are now trialling before the big clubs to keep their players, but they still go ! More opportunities, better facilities, can't answer why....but some kids are definately tapped up!

[matty2323]

I don't have any issues with coaches approaching players from other clubs and inviting them out to trial, but hounding and pressuring young kids shouldn't be allowed. Most kids try out at several clubs each season these days, so many clubs have a selection pool of 25-30 minimum, which they should be able to pick a squad from.

A thought; if you were a coach of a leading federation club with a good junior set up and played a side of lesser ability and they had 1 stand out player who you felt had the potential to make it, would you speak to him about coming to your side and developing in a better environment, providing exposure to greater development, facilities and team mates?

If a player came out to trials and showed exceptional talent, yes discuss the options with the player and parent. But be real about it, there is only limited potential for a career in football in Australia. We keep our discussions in terms of moving up the age groups as the player develops, with the ultimate goal of making it into the Senior teams. It's best to under promise and over deliver.

Do you think this is going to get worse with the implimentation of the seniors point system and the value of a player playing 4 years in your juniors increasing immensely?

Junior players will be listed in senior squads to wipe points off senior players, so the hunt to get good under 13's to your club to register 4 years of juniors prior to hitting seniors could become ver valuable to clubs.

Definitely Mers, you only have to look at the new rules being implemented in Europe and the amount of 'young talent' being poached by the big clubs to see what is going to happen on a smaller scale over here.

Most good players playing super league started playing first team aged 16-18, so to suggest that poaching kids at 13 is solely for the purpose of winning a junior league, is gullible. Good clubs with good coaches identify talent that they believe can take the step into their first team, as all clubs and coaches should, and if that means encouraging a 12-13 to join your club to enhance his development to ensure he has the ability to play first team for your club at that 16-18 age bracket, then good on them.

Kids and parents aren't stupid these days, they're looking to go to clubs based on good coaching and the possibility of future pathways. Its a club's fault if they cant keep hold of these players, because obviously they aren't offering a good enough service to ensure players to stay. Yes, 1 or 2 are going to be tricked into making poor decisions, but the majority end up having successful junior careers at their new club, leading them to senior football.

[90mins]

did'nt one of your coaches go to Adelaide City recently JD ?
I'm sure he would have talked to SOME of his former Kings players, given they are requiring more players ( as per a recent forum )?
i think tapping up kids is disgraceful, let kids come out to trials & promote your trials heavily so you get as many kids as possible out there.

The same for the AC coach that went to WA players followed him too, some I'm sure he asked, some just arrive, however these are not 11/12/13, they are U15, so I have to agree with JD for those ages. However at 14/15/16 I think this is very common, but again if the coach is told NO, he would end it, but while a player is umming and urrmming of course they will keep mentioning it.

I heard that back to back league winning side had as many as 5-7 players turned over

[rexlur]

did'nt one of your coaches go to Adelaide City recently JD ?
I'm sure he would have talked to SOME of his former Kings players, given they are requiring more players ( as per a recent forum )?
i think tapping up kids is disgraceful, let kids come out to trials & promote your trials heavily so you get as many kids as possible out there.

The same for the AC coach that went to WA players followed him too, some I'm sure he asked, some just arrive, however these are not 11/12/13, they are U15, so I have to agree with JD for those ages. However at 14/15/16 I think this is very common, but again if the coach is told NO, he would end it, but while a player is umming and urrmming of course they will keep mentioning it.

Its not called WA anymore its now called CITY WEST and what went on very disgracfull and has got nothing to do with the devopment of kids but purely who you know and the old father/son and coach rule.

[Coach_Mulatinho]

did'nt one of your coaches go to Adelaide City recently JD ?
I'm sure he would have talked to SOME of his former Kings players, given they are requiring more players ( as per a recent forum )?
i think tapping up kids is disgraceful, let kids come out to trials & promote your trials heavily so you get as many kids as possible out there.

The same for the AC coach that went to WA players followed him too, some I'm sure he asked, some just arrive, however these are not 11/12/13, they are U15, so I have to agree with JD for those ages. However at 14/15/16 I think this is very common, but again if the coach is told NO, he would end it, but while a player is umming and urrmming of course they will keep mentioning it.

Its not called WA anymore its now called CITY WEST and what went on very disgracfull and has got nothing to do with the devopment of kids but purely who you know and the old father and son rule.

what about clubs hire the coach based in is quality? why clubs dont actually forbid kid+father coach from u12-17? and then pay coach to work proprely

[rexlur]

Only his followers say great coach different to what others say and think.

[crusaider]

All clubs have the same problem, very few junior coaches, coach to develop most coach so there kids so they are guaranteed a spot. U13 up no parent should be coaching there own child, if they are truely passionate about coaching , coach another age group they'll still get to see there kid play given they choose the right age group. easy way out taken too many times from clubs

[johnydep]

All clubs have the same problem, very few junior coaches, coach to develop most coach so there kids so they are guaranteed a spot. U13 up no parent should be coaching there own child, if they are truely passionate about coaching , coach another age group they'll still get to see there kid play given they choose the right age group. easy way out taken too many times from clubs

Easier said than done.

There is not enough coaches, for the teams available. But there are too many parents happy to bag the coaches we do have.

If half the people that complain about coaches and clubs, got off their backsides and worked at the clubs we'd have a quality football system in this State.

It makes me laugh, people whinging about coaches not doing things they believe is right, yet they themselves do nothing physical.

The only fix for the problem is to pay coaches a proper wage. Maybe the money received from A-League TV's rights, and FFA royalties can be passed onto some clubs.