Carra says Torres's Chelsea career is over

[Red-4-Life]

FORMER Liverpool teammate Jamie Carragher says Fernando Torres's Chelsea career is effectively over after he was left on the bench for the trip to Manchester United.

Blues boss Jose Mourinho, who has made two bids for England striker Wayne Rooney this summer, opted to leave all three of his recognised strikers out of the starting line-up for the Premier League clash at Old Trafford.

Romelu Lukaku and Demba Ba were both snubbed along with Spain striker Torres, who signed for Chelsea for around £50million from Liverpool in 2011 and was only introduced after an hour of the 0-0 draw.

Sky Sports pundit Carragher played alongside Torres at Anfield for three-and-a-half years and says he is unlikely to figure in Mourinho's plans much this season because he's lost the form that saw him score 65 goals in 91 Premier League appearances for Liverpool.

"I'm wondering if Mourinho was sending a message to the owner in the stands," he said on Monday Night Football.

"We all know he wants Rooney, that's obvious. He's basically saying that his strikers aren't good enough; that's what he's telling the world out there.

"You could say it's probably the end at Chelsea [for Torres]. I didn't think he was going to have too great a time under Mourinho.

"As soon as Jose came in his quotes were quite negative about Torres. He started him in the first game against Hull and he was poor. I don't think he got stripped for the second game against Villa.

"I've played with Torres at Old Trafford and he tortured Nemanja Vidic, he totally took him to the cleaners on this pitch in 2009. You wouldn't have swapped him for anyone.

"But now he can't even get on the pitch ahead of André Schürrle, who is only a winger. For me, in terms of an individual player, I don't think we'll ever see Torres come back to being the player we saw a few years ago against Vidic at Old Trafford."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/for ... m-breached

[ozzie owl]

Which EPL sides could afford him?

Possibly Arsenal?

What do Gunners fans think?

[haywood djablowme]

Which EPL sides could afford him?

Possibly Arsenal?

What do Gunners fans think?

As Ive said if he becomes available Wenger will jump at the chance (He rates him highly) if he is on the cheap
As a supporter, yes i want big signings, but rather it not be Torres.

Raid Chelski for Mata & Torres.. now that would be a big boost for the morale around the club

[Con M]

Carragher has long EPL experience and is fairly near the mark on his comment about Torres. Even when he got a token run off the bench against Man.U today his control & performance was woeful. A change can sometimes spark a player up, but I certainly hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres out of desperation to sign somebody, anybody.

By the way, it would have been good to hear Sky Sports pundit Carragher's opinion of the totally forgettable game this morning.

Here was the pinnacle of the EPL, with these 2 clubs playing in front of 75,000 in the stadium, millions of TV viewers in prime time in Britain & Europe and millions more World-wide and that stuff was served up.

Can't remember whose quote the following is attributed to in describing the attitude of certain managers, but it rings true in describing this morning's match: "there are those who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory"

[haywood djablowme]

Carragher has long EPL experience and is fairly near the mark on his comment about Torres. Even when he got a token run off the bench against Man.U today his control & performance was woeful. A change can sometimes spark a player up, but I certainly hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres out of desperation to sign somebody, anybody.

By the way, it would have been good to hear Sky Sports pundit Carragher's opinion of the totally forgettable game this morning.

Here was the pinnacle of the EPL, with these 2 clubs playing in front of 75,000 in the stadium, millions of TV viewers in prime time in Britain & Europe and millions more World-wide and that stuff was served up.

Can't remember whose quote the following is attributed to in describing the attitude of certain managers, but it rings true in describing this morning's match: "there are those who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory"

Agree very boring game from these two powerhouses, but was that Jose's plan? His three strikers all started on the bench, was he trying to send a message to his watching chairman 'we need a striker' ie Rooney

[BTAC]

I hope Arsenal do sign Torres, would be brilliant

[a1079978]

I for one thought Chelsea looked better when they had Torres on. This wasnt due to Torres but the fact they had a target up there, someone they could play through. The formation and style jose opted for in the first 60 minutes was woeful. De bruyenne is very average and scherrle isnt much better. Surely the better option this morning was to play either ba, lukaku or torres from the start.

[BTAC]

I for one thought Chelsea looked better when they had Torres on. This wasnt due to Torres but the fact they had a target up there, someone they could play through. The formation and style jose opted for in the first 60 minutes was woeful. De bruyenne is very average and scherrle isnt much better. Surely the better option this morning was to play either ba, lukaku or torres from the start.

De Bruyne and Schurrle are both far from average. That kind of comment suggests that last night is the first time you've seen them play.

[El Pibe D'Oro]

Carragher has long EPL experience and is fairly near the mark on his comment about Torres. Even when he got a token run off the bench against Man.U today his control & performance was woeful. A change can sometimes spark a player up, but I certainly hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres out of desperation to sign somebody, anybody.

By the way, it would have been good to hear Sky Sports pundit Carragher's opinion of the totally forgettable game this morning.

Here was the pinnacle of the EPL, with these 2 clubs playing in front of 75,000 in the stadium, millions of TV viewers in prime time in Britain & Europe and millions more World-wide and that stuff was served up.

Can't remember whose quote the following is attributed to in describing the attitude of certain managers, but it rings true in describing this morning's match: "there are those who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory"

Ok, so Jose sends out a different side in order to appease those who want to see a 4-3 win

I am sure Jose would give a f$ck if people don't see goals.... A point at Old Traff could be gold in the scheme of things come seasons end.

Con, stop being so holier than holy with your attitude. These guys play to win 1st, entertain second.

[Con M]

Carragher has long EPL experience and is fairly near the mark on his comment about Torres. Even when he got a token run off the bench against Man.U today his control & performance was woeful. A change can sometimes spark a player up, but I certainly hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres out of desperation to sign somebody, anybody.

By the way, it would have been good to hear Sky Sports pundit Carragher's opinion of the totally forgettable game this morning.

Here was the pinnacle of the EPL, with these 2 clubs playing in front of 75,000 in the stadium, millions of TV viewers in prime time in Britain & Europe and millions more World-wide and that stuff was served up.

Can't remember whose quote the following is attributed to in describing the attitude of certain managers, but it rings true in describing this morning's match: "there are those who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory"

Ok, so Jose sends out a different side in order to appease those who want to see a 4-3 win

I am sure Jose would give a f$ck if people don't see goals.... A point at Old Traff could be gold in the scheme of things come seasons end.

Con, stop being so holier than holy with your attitude. These guys play to win 1st, entertain second.

Not trying to be holier than anyone. Even the FoxSports news bulletin described that game as "forgettable".

I like the colourful Jose whose teams are usually entertaining. I recall his first stint at Chelsea when he had the likes of Terry, Essien, Lampard & Drogba pursuing victories to the very end. Once Jose settles in I believe that will be the attitude again.

Don't know how significant that sole point at O.T. will be at the end - Chelsea has a potential 105 points it could rack up in it's remaining 35 games, although obviously it will lose and draw some of those.

Three decades ago the English changed from 2 points for a win to 3 to try to dissuade defensive managers playing for 1 point for a draw, then the rest of the World's leagues followed a decade later. It had some effect, although an example when it didn't last year was when Stoke drew nearly 40% of their games. (No wonder Stoke fans got jack of it and Pulis was sacked).

I don't know what can be further done now to dissuade managers who place avoidance of defeat above pursuit of victory. I can't see IFAB approving a trial in some league of 4 points for a win and 1 for a draw to gauge the outcome.

Anyhow, back to topic - I still hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres and his apparently total loss of the form he showed at Liverpool alongside Carragher.

[getborn]

Carragher has long EPL experience and is fairly near the mark on his comment about Torres. Even when he got a token run off the bench against Man.U today his control & performance was woeful. A change can sometimes spark a player up, but I certainly hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres out of desperation to sign somebody, anybody.

By the way, it would have been good to hear Sky Sports pundit Carragher's opinion of the totally forgettable game this morning.

Here was the pinnacle of the EPL, with these 2 clubs playing in front of 75,000 in the stadium, millions of TV viewers in prime time in Britain & Europe and millions more World-wide and that stuff was served up.

Can't remember whose quote the following is attributed to in describing the attitude of certain managers, but it rings true in describing this morning's match: "there are those who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory"

Ok, so Jose sends out a different side in order to appease those who want to see a 4-3 win

I am sure Jose would give a f$ck if people don't see goals.... A point at Old Traff could be gold in the scheme of things come seasons end.

Con, stop being so holier than holy with your attitude. These guys play to win 1st, entertain second.

Not trying to be holier than anyone. Even the FoxSports news bulletin described that game as "forgettable".

I like the colourful Jose whose teams are usually entertaining. I recall his first stint at Chelsea when he had the likes of Terry, Essien, Lampard & Drogba pursuing victories to the very end. Once Jose settles in I believe that will be the attitude again.

Don't know how significant that sole point at O.T. will be at the end - Chelsea has a potential 105 points it could rack up in it's remaining 35 games, although obviously it will lose and draw some of those.

Three decades ago the English changed from 2 points for a win to 3 to try to dissuade defensive managers playing for 1 point for a draw, then the rest of the World's leagues followed a decade later. It had some effect, although an example when it didn't last year was when Stoke drew nearly 40% of their games. (No wonder Stoke fans got jack of it and Pulis was sacked).

I don't know what can be further done now to dissuade managers who place avoidance of defeat above pursuit of victory. I can't see IFAB approving a trial in some league of 4 points for a win and 1 for a draw to gauge the outcome.

Anyhow, back to topic - I still hope Wenger doesn't go for Torres and his apparently total loss of the form he showed at Liverpool alongside Carragher.

Jose has never, ever, played to entertain.

[Old Redback]

^ Correct!

It was one of the reasons that he fell out with Abramovic the first time around as the owner felt the style was not entertaining enough. Mourinho's game plan is largely about being set up not to concede anything. It happened that he has had the cattle for it to be quite entertaining to watch when they do attack.

He is the Special One and I for one am glad to see him back in charge at Chelsea and in the Premier League.

[oldfart]

Perhaps Liverpool can swap Suarez for Torres and 25 million pounds and solve both club's problems?

[Jimbob]

shiraz me, it's just one game early in the season and we're talking about changing the rules to 4 points for a win!!

I thought United played really well but didn't create much against a well organised Mourinho team containing a very good defence. Mourinho's last Chelsea team weren't entertaining at all but were unrivalled at amassing points. The chances are this team will be more pleasing on the eye because of the personnel there now but the most important thing for any team is results.

I'm just happy that United seem to have hit the ground running under Moyes and we look the goods again. If we keep Rooney we're still the team to beat in my opinion. Having Vidic back will be like a new signing and we might still add a player or two before Monday. And we're still a young squad thats gonna get better each season.

[oldfart]

shiraz me, it's just one game early in the season and we're talking about changing the rules to 4 points for a win!!

I thought United played really well but didn't create much against a well organised Mourinho team containing a very good defence. Mourinho's last Chelsea team weren't entertaining at all but were unrivalled at amassing points. The chances are this team will be more pleasing on the eye because of the personnel there now but the most important thing for any team is results.

I'm just happy that United seem to have hit the ground running under Moyes and we look the goods again. If we keep Rooney we're still the team to beat in my opinion. Having Vidic back will be like a new signing and we might still add a player or two before Monday. And we're still a young squad thats gonna get better each season.

I've been calling for 4 points for a win for thirty years - with 2 points for a score draw and 1 for a goal-less draw - and 1 point bonus for scoring three goals or more.

[Derek]

Leave the game and its point system alone.

No need.

[Con M]

No Jimbob, I said I didn't know what could be done to persuade those managers who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory. I said I didn't think IFAB/FIFA would approve a simple 4-points-for-a-win, 1-point-for-a-draw trial in some league somewhere and gauge the findings.

Also Oldfart, I see how the points structure you suggested might motivate negative managers, but IMO many would consider it too complex - keep it simple. Besides, wouldn't want to see managers contrive a score-draw as a starting point in order to get 2 points.

Look, I enjoy tactical battles as much as any conservative football follower. But I got up early to watch the blockbuster and it made me and others grumpy to see that neither side made a clear-cut chance. Other media reports described the match as 'dull' and 'listless'.

I just hope all teams improve as they get into their stride and don't go down the Stoke road of last season in settling for draws in 40% of their games.

ps, wonder how many conservative forumites on here were opposed when it changed from 2 points for a win to 3?

[oldfart]

No Jimbob, I said I didn't know what could be done to persuade those managers who place avoidance of defeat above the pursuit of victory. I said I didn't think IFAB/FIFA would approve a simple 4-points-for-a-win, 1-point-for-a-draw trial in some league somewhere and gauge the findings.

Also Oldfart, I see how the points structure you suggested might motivate negative managers, but IMO many would consider it too complex - keep it simple. Besides, wouldn't want to see managers contrive a score-draw as a starting point in order to get 2 points.

Look, I enjoy tactical battles as much as any conservative football follower. But I got up early to watch the blockbuster and it made me and others grumpy to see that neither side made a clear-cut chance. Other media reports described the match as 'dull' and 'listless'.

I just hope all teams improve as they get into their stride and don't go down the Stoke road of last season in settling for draws in 40% of their games.

ps, wonder how many conservative forumites on here were opposed when it changed from 2 points for a win to 3?

Con M, the idea was trialled about twenty-five years ago in the UK in a minor league and was given the thumbs up by most of the clubs and supporters but it was never followed up again - apparently FIFA didn't like it for some reason - I heard the Italians squealed loudly about it.

One thing it did do was encourage clubs to continue attacking when they'd scored two goals rather than sitting back and defending.