Best Manager EVER

[God is an Englishman]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

[Statler and Waldorf]

Chapman was far better.

[the fink]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

especially as paisley did that in such a short time

[The Kop]

cue the debate about how it's harder to win now than then....

[Statler and Waldorf]

If someone can work it out this way

6 points Euro Cup
5 points League
4 Points UEFA CUP
3 Points FA Cup
2 Points Cup Winners Cup
1 point League Cup

Charity Shield, Super Cup, World Club etc should be discounted

Then work out the average per season for each manger, we will get a rough idea.

Obviously my man, Chapman won't get near the top as there was no European or League Cup.

[Statler and Waldorf]

cue the debate about how it's harder to win now than then....

But there is no debate, it's easier now. As you don't have to win your league, we got to a final without being Champions in 2006

Also you can lose many games and still go through a round robin stage.

[Le King]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

SIR Alex Ferguson
Bob Paisly

spot the difference

[Jimbob]

Some people complain that Sir Alex won the Champions League only twice in 26 years. But only a mug would compare the old European Cup to the Champions League.
Teams won the European Cup three or four years on the bounce. No team have defended the Champions League.

[God is an Englishman]

Some people complain that Sir Alex won the Champions League only twice in 26 years. But only a mug would compare the old European Cup to the Champions League.
Teams won the European Cup three or four years on the bounce. No team have defended the Champions League.

gary neville's a lefty piece of cabernet though.

look at the amount of teams that have won the cup winners cup that wouldn't have even qualified for the european cup. That speaks volumes.

[God is an Englishman]

If someone can work it out this way

6 points Euro Cup
5 points League
4 Points UEFA CUP
3 Points FA Cup
2 Points Cup Winners Cup
1 point League Cup

Charity Shield, Super Cup, World Club etc should be discounted

Then work out the average per season for each manger, we will get a rough idea.

Obviously my man, Chapman won't get near the top as there was no European or League Cup.

OK, some quick maths makes this:

Paisley: 55 points - 6.11 a season

Fergie (just man u): 91 points - 3.37 a season
Fergie (overall): 121 points - 3.10 a season.

[The one and only]

both great managers

[Nice One Cyril]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

SIR Alex Ferguson
Bob Paisly

spot the difference

Aah, but Bob had a fabric named after him

[Nice One Cyril]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

especially as paisley did that in such a short time

After Shanks had done all the hard work, then retired and left him in the box seat.

I'm sure some Pool fans will disagree, but I can't think of one that I know who thinks Paisley was a better manager than Shanks.

[robinfriday10]

Had to be Champions of country back in Paisleys day

[Statler and Waldorf]

Do you think fergie did enough to overtake paisley?

Personally, not quite. 3 European cups is hard to beat.

SIR Alex Ferguson
Bob Paisly

spot the difference

WG Grace was a far better cricketer than Sir Ian Botham. I know Botham got his knighthood for charity work as wells but if he wasn't a cricketer he wouldn't have been knighted. Being knighted doesn't make you better.

Ryan Giggs world CUp appearances is zero, are you saying that he is worse than my man Theo.

Also its the modern day thing to give knighthoods, Paisley would have gotten one if he was in The modern era, there is no doubt.

Finally, of course Gary Neville would say that, he benefited from the simple to win cup era.

[Jimbob]

Finally, of course Gary Neville would say that, he benefited from the simple to win cup era.

Simple to win? Yet not one team has ever won it back to back, not even the great Barca or Madrid teams.

[Le King]

Finally, of course Gary Neville would say that, he benefited from the simple to win cup era.

Simple to win? Yet not one team has ever won it back to back, not even the great Barca or Madrid teams.

Spot on. That was a good article by Neville. No team has gone back to back in the new format.
Not denying that paisley was a gd manager, but he inherited a pretty decent team off shankly... That's y people say shanks was better than paisley. Although managers are judged on trophies won, its also the ability to build and develop a squad which are qualities of a great manager

[Statler and Waldorf]

Paisley converted Kennedy from Forward to midfield in his first season.

Us Arsenal fans laughed, as we knew how good Kennedy was up front. Paisley shut us up.

[God is an Englishman]

When man u won the champions league in 98, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When chelsea won the champions league in 12, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When liverpool won the champions league in 05, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

I can't be bothered looking it up but I don't think they would have. Therefore, it's a clear fact that it's easier to win the european cup now as they wouldn't have won the old European Cup.

The rest is just subjective and opinion, the above is FACT!

[sephiroth]

When man u won the champions league in 98, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When chelsea won the champions league in 12, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When liverpool won the champions league in 05, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

I can't be bothered looking it up but I don't think they would have. Therefore, it's a clear fact that it's easier to win the european cup now as they wouldn't have won the old European Cup.

The rest is just subjective and opinion, the above is FACT!

Man Utd didn't win the Champions League in '98. So therefore, the above is not fact.

[God is an Englishman]

When man u won the champions league in 98, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When chelsea won the champions league in 12, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

When liverpool won the champions league in 05, would they have even qualified for the old european cup?

I can't be bothered looking it up but I don't think they would have. Therefore, it's a clear fact that it's easier to win the european cup now as they wouldn't have won the old European Cup.

The rest is just subjective and opinion, the above is FACT!

Man Utd didn't win the Champions League in '98. So therefore, the above is not fact.

You are correct, it was 99. Point still valid though.

[Jimbob]

Don't really want to get into this argument again as we've gone over this before but....

yes, GIAE you are correct, the one indisputable fact is that it used to be champions only back in the old format. Nobody is denying this. But this fact on it's own straight away meant the old format was easier because you excluded the 2-3 other best teams from each country from playing each year.

This is the only argument you've ever put forward on this subject, well done. To win it in the current format, you really have to be one of the best ahead of the creme de la creme of European football.

But yes, strictly speaking it was harder then because you had to win the league first to even compete. The argument goes a bit beyond that however.

[Statler and Waldorf]

Making it a league format now has also made it easier to win. You can afford to lose 3 games in a row and qualify.

When Liverpool won it in 05 they were not the best in Europe
Chelsea were not the best in Europe last season

In the past the winners were arguably the best team in Europe, you did get minnows getting to the final, but they never seemed to win it, Bruges, Malmo etc

[Le King]

Don't really want to get into this argument again as we've gone over this before but....

yes, GIAE you are correct, the one indisputable fact is that it used to be champions only back in the old format. Nobody is denying this. But this fact on it's own straight away meant the old format was easier because you excluded the 2-3 other best teams from each country from playing each year.

This is the only argument you've ever put forward on this subject, well done. To win it in the current format, you really have to be one of the best ahead of the creme de la creme of European football.

But yes, strictly speaking it was harder then because you had to win the league first to even compete. The argument goes a bit beyond that however.

Teams these days that finish 2nd and 3rd in the bigger leagues eg England Spain Italy n Germany, can beat most teams that come top in other leagues
Personally I believe it's harder these days to win it as the competition is much harder

[God is an Englishman]

Don't really want to get into this argument again as we've gone over this before but....

yes, GIAE you are correct, the one indisputable fact is that it used to be champions only back in the old format. Nobody is denying this. But this fact on it's own straight away meant the old format was easier because you excluded the 2-3 other best teams from each country from playing each year.

This is the only argument you've ever put forward on this subject, well done. To win it in the current format, you really have to be one of the best ahead of the creme de la creme of European football.

But yes, strictly speaking it was harder then because you had to win the league first to even compete. The argument goes a bit beyond that however.

to win the tournament, first you had to qualify. If you can't qualify, you can't win it.

Can you prove that a team that won the old european cup, wouldn't be able to win the champions league because i've proved beyond all doubt that a champions league winners wouldn't have won the old european cup.

As i said, the rest is subjective and opinion. You couldn't really lose games in the european cup but you wouldn't have had barcelona, real, inter and ac all in the same tournament. Subjective and opinon compared to FACT!

[Statler and Waldorf]

Le King, why its it harder.

Look at the 99 Comp, Man Utd won less than half of (I think) of their games!!!!!

[Jimbob]

Le King, why its it harder.

Look at the 99 Comp, Man Utd won less than half of (I think) of their games!!!!!

In the old format to win the whole thing you had to navigate through what, 5 rounds of knockout matches with the first rounds against Shamrock Rovers and Grasshoppers?

Now, not only do you have to qualify from a group stage, you then have to play 4 knockout rounds against the BEST teams in Europe. In the old format, roughly only a quarter of the best teams in Europe were competing each year.

[Jimbob]

Don't really want to get into this argument again as we've gone over this before but....

yes, GIAE you are correct, the one indisputable fact is that it used to be champions only back in the old format. Nobody is denying this. But this fact on it's own straight away meant the old format was easier because you excluded the 2-3 other best teams from each country from playing each year.

This is the only argument you've ever put forward on this subject, well done. To win it in the current format, you really have to be one of the best ahead of the creme de la creme of European football.

But yes, strictly speaking it was harder then because you had to win the league first to even compete. The argument goes a bit beyond that however.

to win the tournament, first you had to qualify. If you can't qualify, you can't win it.

Can you prove that a team that won the old european cup, wouldn't be able to win the champions league because i've proved beyond all doubt that a champions league winners wouldn't have won the old european cup.

As i said, the rest is subjective and opinion. You couldn't really lose games in the european cup but you wouldn't have had barcelona, real, inter and ac all in the same tournament. Subjective and opinon compared to FACT!

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[God is an Englishman]

Don't really want to get into this argument again as we've gone over this before but....

yes, GIAE you are correct, the one indisputable fact is that it used to be champions only back in the old format. Nobody is denying this. But this fact on it's own straight away meant the old format was easier because you excluded the 2-3 other best teams from each country from playing each year.

This is the only argument you've ever put forward on this subject, well done. To win it in the current format, you really have to be one of the best ahead of the creme de la creme of European football.

But yes, strictly speaking it was harder then because you had to win the league first to even compete. The argument goes a bit beyond that however.

to win the tournament, first you had to qualify. If you can't qualify, you can't win it.

Can you prove that a team that won the old european cup, wouldn't be able to win the champions league because i've proved beyond all doubt that a champions league winners wouldn't have won the old european cup.

As i said, the rest is subjective and opinion. You couldn't really lose games in the european cup but you wouldn't have had barcelona, real, inter and ac all in the same tournament. Subjective and opinon compared to FACT!

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Can you prove that a team that won the old european cup, wouldn't be able to win the champions league because i've proved beyond all doubt that a champions league winners wouldn't have won the old european cup.

[Statler and Waldorf]

Le King, why its it harder.

Look at the 99 Comp, Man Utd won less than half of (I think) of their games!!!!!

In the old format to win the whole thing you had to navigate through what, 5 rounds of knockout matches with the first rounds against Shamrock Rovers and Grasshoppers?

Now, not only do you have to qualify from a group stage, you then have to play 4 knockout rounds against the BEST teams in Europe. In the old format, roughly only a quarter of the best teams in Europe were competing each year.

I would think travelling behind the iron curtain was tougher than than flying on chartered planes round Europe like they do now.

As a UTD fan you wouldn't know about such things, having not been champions or competing in the comp for over a quarter of a century.