SAASL Meeting, did anyone go, what happened ?

povman_2009 · Post by **povman_2009** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:23 pm

From the SAASL Website ...

2009 and Beyond

As advised in our recent information release, that we were preparing to hold meetings in various locations to assist with travel arrangements for our outer suburban clubs, we are pleased to advise that we shall be holding these meetings as detailed below, and clubs are invited to attend whichever location suits them.

Meeting 1
(Southern Area Clubs)
7:15pm
Wednesday 1st October 2008
Marion Sports and Community Club
Sturt Road, Marion
Meeting 2
(Northern Area Clubs)
7:17pm
Tuesday 7th October 2008
E.D.J.S.A Meeting Hall
Peachey Road, Elizabeth West.

Meeting 3
(Hills Area Clubs)
7:15pm
Monday 13th October 2008
Hahndorf Old Mill
98 Main Road, Hahndorf Meeting 4
(Metropolitan and
Western Area Clubs)
7:15pm
Wednesday 15th October 2008
League Headquarters,
Grange Road

Two meetings have already been held, can anyone give us an update...

marooned · Post by **marooned** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:55 pm

i attended the Northern area meeting last tuesday and to me there was an overwhelming support for the continuation of the SAASL in its current format. The FFSA is being shown for what it is, a money hungry organisation with complete disregard for any thing, in its crusade to completly dominate all things football in this state.(Under the guise of development!!) We, will continue to grow and prosper while the FFSA and SAWSA will flounder under the outrageous cost structures imposed on clubs. Which over the next 5 years will destroy many a club, not even enough money for a Fed Cup prize should have sent alarm bells ringing. When attempting a takeover you should perhaps go into it with a larger bat than your takeover target or you may find the rolls will be reversed and your left with nothing but idle threats.

Bomber · Post by **Bomber** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:24 pm

Did the referee availability issue get discussed?

Tony Adams · Post by **Tony Adams** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:03 pm

what about a womens ametuer comp?

Bomber · Post by **Bomber** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:38 pm

tonyadams wrote:what about a womens ametuer comp?

As opposed to the professional one they have now?

marooned · Post by **marooned** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:03 pm

Dont want to speculate on the Womens comp. There was a lot of interested clubs. I will say this though, it cost the same to run two womens team in SAWSA as it does to run our entire junior set up through EDJSA. And costs much more than our 5 mens teams through SAASL.

MegaBonus · Post by **MegaBonus** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:24 pm

@ marooned

thanks for avoiding the question!!!!!

Bomber
Post subject: Re: SAASL Meeting, did anyone go, what happened ?

Did the referee availability issue get discussed?

Rob Lozza · Post by **Rob Lozza** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:53 pm

MegaBonus wrote:@ marooned

thanks for avoiding the question!!!!!

Bomber
Post subject: Re: SAASL Meeting, did anyone go, what happened ?

Did the referee availability issue get discussed?

I do not know if this issue was discussed as I did not attend the meeting. It is my understanding, however, that the SAASRA will continue to appoint its members to SAASL competition games in 2009. Whether current members decide to remain with SAASRA, move across to the FFSA Referees branch, or be a member of both associations, who knows.

SAASRA = South Australian Amateur Soccer Referees Association

MegaBonus · Post by **MegaBonus** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:55 pm

facts are that any 'good young' referee who might start in the SAASL will eventually go the the FFSA. a saw that 'goodwin' was the ref's assistant in the state game V WA!!!

GULLY BOYZ · Post by **GULLY BOYZ** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:54 pm

Rob Lozza wrote:
MegaBonus wrote:@ marooned

thanks for avoiding the question!!!!!

Bomber
Post subject: Re: SAASL Meeting, did anyone go, what happened ?

Did the referee availability issue get discussed?
I do not know if this issue was discussed as I did not attend the meeting. It is my understanding, however, that the SAASRA will continue to appoint its members to SAASL competition games in 2009. Whether current members decide to remain with SAASRA, move across to the FFSA Referees branch, or be a member of both associations, who knows.

SAASRA = South Australian Amateur Soccer Referees Association

Yes it was mentioned !!!

Knight7 · Post by **Knight7** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:58 pm

MegaBonus wrote:facts are that any 'good young' referee who might start in the SAASL will eventually go the the FFSA. a saw that 'goodwin' was the ref's assistant in the state game V WA!!!

Yeah but only because he had $100 on the result!

marooned · Post by **marooned** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:04 pm

Sorry Bomber/ Mega Bonus i didnt now that question was for me? Yes it was mentioned and a plan is in place for the referee situation. The club ref program has been a success as far as we are concerned and has cut out a lot of the pressure cooker situations we have had in years gone by. From what I understand there will be plenty of refs to cover games next year.

gunner_59 · Post by **gunner_59** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:30 pm

SAASRA's primary objective is to service the grass roots level of participation in the wonderful game. The Association has a web site at http://saasra.wikispaces.com/.
There are references in the Member Guide and the Constitution sections in regard to the refereeing operations of the Association.
The Association, like many other bodies, has to find ways to address the 'ageing' population of its members. Ideally, as someone else mentioned in a previous post, it would be great to retain new referees in the Association. Unfortunately, because of the poor behaviour of the minority clubs in the SAASL, new referees that finish their entry course opt to go and referee in the FFSA. So how can you retain the new ones if they don't actually join up with SAASRA in the first place???
I mentioned in a previous post that the SAASL has an image problem... I think it is an unfair one, but over the last six years (that I can recall), they have not been firm enough on the rogue clubs... it's a bit like climate change, the SAASL had been in denial for too long and now the harsh reality is starting to hit... now they are starting to address it with a whole lot of great initiatives (and lots of money) but it should never had got this far in the first place.
They are not, of course, the only ones to blame.... there are lots of clubs who don't step over the line, but do nothing to make a referee feel like he is coming in to a safe workplace... because, basically, that's what he is doing... he's coming in to a workplace to do a job. And we all know that job performance is closely linked to a safe working environment.

marooned · Post by **marooned** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:46 pm

FFSA has released details of their metro league cost stucture for the coming season 2009. Based on the number of participants we had at the Downs this year a quick calculation shows we would be up for just under $19,000 before we kicked a ball next year.

Aldo Serena · Post by **Aldo Serena** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:37 pm

marooned wrote:FFSA has released details of their metro league cost stucture for the coming season 2009. Based on the number of participants we had at the Downs this year a quick calculation shows we would be up for just under $19,000 before we kicked a ball next year.

marooned, what does it currently cost you under the SAASL and E&D?

By the way, I noticed that ethnic names will only be allowed for 2009 and 2010 seasons - I am sure that won't go down well with the likes of Croatia and Beograd. :?

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:07 am

ok here is my rough no.s for Eliz Downs - looking at the no. of teams they had in E&D this year and having an A's B's and C team in the SAASL

70 U6/7/8
170 U11 upwards
45 seniors

Based on them nos and the new fees put out by the FFSA

U6/7/8 70 players x $27 = $1890
U11 upwards 170 players x $49 = $8330
seniors 45 players x $70 = $3150

Total $13370

Look at the E&D fee structure for Registration/insurance and match fees they charge I worked it out to approx $7000 cost for there Juniors. (this sounds about right based on information I have on another clubs E&D costs to the E&D)

There doesnt appear to be any fee structure listed on the SAASL site but I think I wouldnt be to far of the mark if I said it was in the $2000 to $3000 mark for the Downs Seniors

So in total I would say for the total players the downs have in juniors and seniors it would be costing pretty close to $10000 for E&D and SAASL charges.

So basically there is $3000 extra it would cost for Eliz Downs to be part of the FFSA which is basically the national $10/player (Downs have nearly 300 junior and senior player) levy which is a national levy.

I might be a bit out with these no.s but I do think Im in the ball park.

BIG RED · Post by **BIG RED** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:27 am

yes it does appear the $10/player national levy is really the only difference, and the FFSA are just the collector of this levy for the national body.

swannsong · Post by **swannsong** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:31 am

Rodney wrote:ok here is my rough no.s for Eliz Downs - looking at the no. of teams they had in E&D this year and having an A's B's and C team in the SAASL

70 U6/7/8
170 U11 upwards
45 seniors

Based on them nos and the new fees put out by the FFSA

U6/7/8 70 players x $27 = $1890
U11 upwards 170 players x $49 = $8330
seniors 45 players x $70 = $3150

Total $13370

Look at the E&D fee structure for Registration/insurance and match fees they charge I worked it out to approx $7000 cost for there Juniors. (this sounds about right based on information I have on another clubs E&D costs to the E&D)

There doesnt appear to be any fee structure listed on the SAASL site but I think I wouldnt be to far of the mark if I said it was in the $2000 to $3000 mark for the Downs Seniors

So in total I would say for the total players the downs have in juniors and seniors it would be costing pretty close to $10000 for E&D and SAASL charges.

So basically there is $3000 extra it would cost for Eliz Downs to be part of the FFSA which is basically the national $10/player (Downs have nearly 300 junior and senior player) levy which is a national levy.

I might be a bit out with these no.s but I do think Im in the ball park.

Thanks for taking the time Rodney, but I would say there are probably more likely ~60 Seniors or more (5 teams remember )and 2 womens teams not in your calculations ?
Plus there are no 5 year guarantees that these fees will not rise.
And more importantly, it's not just about money ?

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:24 am

I was 100% on the senior numbers but all that does is increase the total dollars on both sides of the equation and the total difference will still be about the $10/player mark (approx) I think you will find.

And yes I know its more than just the dollars

oh and the FFSA cant gaurantee (I would think) that the FFA will not increase the $10/player levy - and that levy helping the national interest is understandable I think- national youth/senior teams etc etc is a very costly exercise as they go around the world.

The Boss · Post by **The Boss** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:30 am

BIG RED wrote:yes it does appear the $10/player national levy is really the only difference, and the FFSA are just the collector of this levy for the national body.

Not to mention the $11 development levy and the $14.85 insurance levy which are still to be confirmed.

The Boss · Post by **The Boss** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:34 am

Rodney wrote:I was 100% on the senior numbers but all that does is increase the total dollars on both sides of the equation and the total difference will still be about the $10/player mark (approx) I think you will find.

And yes I know its more than just the dollars

oh and the FFSA cant gaurantee (I would think) that the FFA will not increase the $10/player levy - and that levy helping the national interest is understandable I think- national youth/senior teams etc etc is a very costly exercise as they go around the world.

In round numbers it would cost the SAASL around $200k per annum to be part of FFSA

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:51 am

The Boss wrote:
BIG RED wrote:yes it does appear the $10/player national levy is really the only difference, and the FFSA are just the collector of this levy for the national body.
Not to mention the $11 development levy and the $14.85 insurance levy which are still to be confirmed.

But thats what they are quoting in there release (and I have included in my numbers just to clarify) What insurance companies charge can never be gauranteed I would think and as for the dev fee I wouldnt think that would move to much going forward - but its all new so its a bit hard to see how much exactly its going to cost for player development going forward.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:03 am

The Boss wrote:
Rodney wrote:I was 100% on the senior numbers but all that does is increase the total dollars on both sides of the equation and the total difference will still be about the $10/player mark (approx) I think you will find.

And yes I know its more than just the dollars

oh and the FFSA cant gaurantee (I would think) that the FFA will not increase the $10/player levy - and that levy helping the national interest is understandable I think- national youth/senior teams etc etc is a very costly exercise as they go around the world.
In round numbers it would cost the SAASL around $200k per annum to be part of FFSA

And I think you will find the total dollars the SAASL gets in from clubs to cover there costs would be a high number also. And how much have the SAASL got in the bank again?

Aldo Serena · Post by **Aldo Serena** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:05 am

The Boss wrote:
BIG RED wrote:yes it does appear the $10/player national levy is really the only difference, and the FFSA are just the collector of this levy for the national body.
Not to mention the $11 development levy and the $14.85 insurance levy which are still to be confirmed.

However, under the SAASL we pay a fixed Accident Fund fee - the insurance levy under the FFSA just replaces this so it is not an extra fee as such.

The Boss · Post by **The Boss** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:45 am

Rodney wrote:And how much have the SAASL got in the bank again?

That's exactly the point, Rodney. This is why they can keep registration fees fixed at $37 for the next 5 years.

Rewarding their members and returning some of the funds is something FFSA should take note of.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:05 am

Rewarding or trying to entice them not to leave the ship?

Im sure the poeple that have put $'s into the SAASL over the years that are no longer part of the SAASL wont mind the dollars going indirectly into other peoples pockets going forward as an enticement for them to stay a part of the SAASL.

Wouldnt it have been better if the SAASL put a bigger % of this large amount (sitting in the SAASL bank account) of dollars back into the game in the past?

This thread will probably go for 20 pages and go around and around in circles (the same circles we have been around 3 times before) lets try and not get personal people its not healthy

The Boss · Post by **The Boss** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:15 am

Rodney wrote:Rewarding or trying to entice them not to leave the ship?

Im sure the poeple that have put $'s into the SAASL over the years that are no longer part of the SAASL wont mind the dollars going indirectly into other peoples pockets going forward as an enticement for them to stay a part of the SAASL.

Wouldnt it have been better if the SAASL put a bigger % of this large amount (sitting in the SAASL bank account) of dollars back into the game in the past?

This thread will probably go for 20 pages and go around and around in circles (the same circles we have been around 3 times before) lets try and not get personal people its not healthy

I agree totally but I don't think there is any fear of any existing clubs jumping ship. More so I think it is aimed at showing future stability, whereas there are a lot of unkowns and uncertainty perceived with FFSA.

PS: I wasn't getting personal, was I?
I for one am not into the sledging that goes on in these forums.

marooned · Post by **marooned** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:25 am

From memory we had close to 75 men registered and 35 women and approximately 320 kids registered. The insurance level is not set it is yet to be comfirmed, that could rise substancialy if the numbers are not there. These cost are for the metro comp only and not SAWSA which i would suggest would remain the same. Calculate that Rodney.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:53 am

The Boss wrote:
PS: I wasn't getting personal, was I?
I for one am not into the sledging that goes on in these forums.

No I wasnt having a go at you I just wanted to get in early (with potentially others) before it could get out of hand - and Im not saying that I thought you would have gone down that track either

The Downs had 17 teams in the E&D and there was a high % in the 6/7/8 age groups that would have only squad sizes of around 10 because the games are 8v8. So even if you said squad sizes of 15 for all teams then thats 255 (17x15)?

But what I was trying to show/highlight was the total $ difference between the SAASL fees (senior and junior) and the FFSA fees (senior and junior). And its not easy to do per player because the fee structures arent done the same (ie the E&D have one of there fees per game and not per player)

Also this thread is very slow to go in and out of anyone know why?

Cantona.7 · Post by **Cantona.7** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:29 pm

marooned wrote:i attended the Northern area meeting last tuesday and to me there was an overwhelming support for the continuation of the SAASL in its current format. The FFSA is being shown for what it is, a money hungry organisation with complete disregard for any thing, in its crusade to completly dominate all things football in this state.(Under the guise of development!!) We, will continue to grow and prosper while the FFSA and SAWSA will flounder under the outrageous cost structures imposed on clubs. Which over the next 5 years will destroy many a club, not even enough money for a Fed Cup prize should have sent alarm bells ringing. When attempting a takeover you should perhaps go into it with a larger bat than your takeover target or you may find the rolls will be reversed and your left with nothing but idle threats.

That is true with regards to the Fed Cup prize money!! Thats a complete scandal that any club that wins this comp cant even get a dividend back on the outrageous entry fees they have to cough up with!
im still waiting on my share from 5 years ago!