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 Post subject: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Ball Boy
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Who was the most successful junior club of 2018 ??


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Promising Junior
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By what definition?
- Winning titles
- satisfied members
- best junior development
- retained players from previous season
- most improved coaches


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Ball Boy
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on field ! the rest is just opinion ?.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Promising Junior
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Metrostars and Adelaide City in terms of results

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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:41 am 
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Promising Junior
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tevez. wrote:
Metrostars and Adelaide City in terms of results


Not on the basis of retained players.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:39 am 
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fball12 wrote:
tevez. wrote:
Metrostars and Adelaide City in terms of results


Not on the basis of retained players.
that's why he put "in terms of results"


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Ball Boy
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what results did you use ? just titles ?


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:14 am 
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Promising Junior
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convert34 wrote:
what results did you use ? just titles ?


ladder positions

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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Ball Boy
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cumby?


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Ball Boy
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Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Ball Boy
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Given no club had 2 teams in the cup finals - Id say its even harder to tell.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:27 am 
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Ball Boy
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Cheers interesting numbers . Good news for Para Hills Not so good for a few more!


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 am 
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Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.
why have you excluded the U12’s?


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Promising Junior
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Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.


Pretty cool stats there - cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Ball Boy
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Pie and Bovril wrote:
Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.
why have you excluded the U12’s?


Haven't included U12s because their divisions have not been split based on performance (i.e. no A, B and C comp just three 'equal' competitions).


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Azzurri wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:
Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.
why have you excluded the U12’s?


Haven't included U12s because their divisions have not been split based on performance (i.e. no A, B and C comp just three 'equal' competitions).
yes they have. They were coloured and then spilt halfway through the season into A, B, C divisions


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.


Forget the meaningless Under 17s because the strong junior clubs don't take it seriously, and Metro jumps to 2nd.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:03 am 
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Ball Boy
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Migrant Land wrote:
Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.


Forget the meaningless Under 17s because the strong junior clubs don't take it seriously, and Metro jumps to 2nd.


Can't just rule out a league and call it pointless because it stuffs up one team's ranking :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:06 am 
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Azzurri wrote:
Migrant Land wrote:
Azzurri wrote:
Using JPL A, B and C tables for U13 - U17: Average positions are

PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 13/4 = 3.25
ADELAIDE CITY 17/5 = 3.4
METRO 21/5 = 4.2
RAIDERS 29/5 = 5.8
COMETS 27/4 = 6.75
CUMBERLAND 37/5 = 7.4
CAMPBELLTOWN 40/5 = 8
WT BIRKALLA 51/5 = 10.2
WEST ADE 55/5 = 11
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 50/4 = 12.5
MODBURY JETS 71/5 = 14.2

Obviously some outliers in some cases (e.g. AC 9th in U16s), but interesting to see Para Hills take top spot.


Forget the meaningless Under 17s because the strong junior clubs don't take it seriously, and Metro jumps to 2nd.


Can't just rule out a league and call it pointless because it stuffs up one team's ranking :lol: :lol:
try it again by using the U12A,B,C instead of red, blue, yellow.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:12 am 
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Ball Boy
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Ok, so now including U12 A, B and C JPL along with the U13s to U17s, updated table as follows:

ADELAIDE CITY 22/6 = 3.67
METRO 23/6 = 3.83
PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 26/5 = 5.2
RAIDERS 32/6 = 5.33
COMETS 28/5 = 5.6
CUMBERLAND 51/6 = 8.5
CAMPBELLTOWN 52/6 = 8.67
WT BIRKALLA 58/6 = 9.67
WEST ADELAIDE 59/6 = 9.83
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 60/5 = 12
MODBURY JETS 89/6 = 14.83
EASTERN UNITED 71/4 = 17.75


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:34 am 
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Azzurri wrote:
Ok, so now including U12 A, B and C JPL along with the U13s to U17s, updated table as follows:

ADELAIDE CITY 22/6 = 3.67
METRO 23/6 = 3.83
PARA HILLS KNIGHTS 26/5 = 5.2
RAIDERS 32/6 = 5.33
COMETS 28/5 = 5.6
CUMBERLAND 51/6 = 8.5
CAMPBELLTOWN 52/6 = 8.67
WT BIRKALLA 58/6 = 9.67
WEST ADELAIDE 59/6 = 9.83
ADELAIDE BLUE EAGLES 60/5 = 12
MODBURY JETS 89/6 = 14.83
EASTERN UNITED 71/4 = 17.75


And what about those clubs who push players up a year, for their development, but may give away some physical strength and drop points?
Ladder positions are meaningless for the most part.
When you get past senior players shaking their heads in disgust at the poor quality that they see on the field, you know there's problems.
Of course the establishment-types on FN ignore this part.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:36 pm 
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I agree with Migrant Land that tables only tell part of the story.
We need to apply 100% loadings for any club that has black and white as its primary colours, its nickname involves African animals, is run by suits, has fees over $1474, the parents are gullible idiots, its chairman is called Tony, have recently appointed a 4th or 5th choice senior coach and does not have MLs son on their books. That should straighten the rankings out.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:52 pm 
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KRO wrote:
I agree with Migrant Land that tables only tell part of the story.
We need to apply 100% loadings for any club that has black and white as its primary colours, its nickname involves African animals, is run by suits, has fees over $1474, the parents are gullible idiots, its chairman is called Tony, have recently appointed a 4th or 5th choice senior coach and does not have MLs son on their books. That should straighten the rankings out.

More to follow.
For one with no dog in the fight as you put it, you seem to care an awful lot.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Migrant Land wrote:
KRO wrote:
I agree with Migrant Land that tables only tell part of the story.
We need to apply 100% loadings for any club that has black and white as its primary colours, its nickname involves African animals, is run by suits, has fees over $1474, the parents are gullible idiots, its chairman is called Tony, have recently appointed a 4th or 5th choice senior coach and does not have MLs son on their books. That should straighten the rankings out.

More to follow.
For one with no dog in the fight as you put it, you seem to care an awful lot.
why don’t you start your own thread on your beef with Adelaide City instead of ruining all others.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Need to also take into account the ffsa will move the goalposts when it suits to keep certain teams 'where they belong'


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Some issues with this statistical analysis.

Do you get the same points for winning A as winning C?

It doesn't take into account that development is more important than winning?

It doesn't take into account younger players pushed up.

That aside, interesting reading.

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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Ball Boy
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God is an Englishman wrote:
Some issues with this statistical analysis.

Do you get the same points for winning A as winning C?

It doesn't take into account that development is more important than winning?

It doesn't take into account younger players pushed up.

That aside, interesting reading.


Yes I probably should have made this clear...
There was only one numbered order for each age group. I.e. if you came second in JPL B that counts as 14th or whatever placing it was for each age group. I understand it may not have been the fairest way to rank the clubs but it was a more simple way.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:56 pm 
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I believe measure of a successful junior club should be based on development of their juniors. As a parent to me that is more important when paying on average $1000 (not that I am complaining as a volunteer of a local club myself, understand the costs and jobs that need to be done) for ones child to play. for example, how many players from U12 onward have moved on to FFSA programs. or from U15/U16 (or u14/U13 for that matter) have moved to U18 NPL, SL1, SL2.

Would be interesting for you to add the FFSA teams to the rankings to see were they sit, in comparison (I believe they all play a year up).


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:15 pm 
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I'd like to see how many home grown players were in each teams first team last year. That would be a good way to judge the success of juniors.

It would not only show the development of players but also show the club has the culture right as players are staying.

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: most successful junior club 2018 ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:54 pm 
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God is an Englishman wrote:
I'd like to see how many home grown players were in each teams first team last year. That would be a good way to judge the success of juniors.

It would not only show the development of players but also show the club has the culture right as players are staying.
That would be a great stat but my guess is most teams would have no more than a couple of players that have come through the ranks (by that I mean 3 or more years as a junior at the club)


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