who thinks div5 should b scraped?

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radioactive man
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who thinks div5 should b scraped?

Post by radioactive man »

div 5 is a joke athelstone is the only half decent side! and if if they werent stuck up tossers they could b agood side! northern utd would get floged by any div 4 side they only get results coz the league is shithouse god they have dave johnson on their bench :lol:

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Re: who thinks div5 should b scraped?

Post by Di Canio »

radioactive man wrote:div 5 is a joke athelstone is the only half decent side! and if if they werent stuck up tossers they could b agood side! northern utd would get floged by any div 4 side they only get results coz the league is shithouse god they have dave johnson on their bench :lol:
Not having seen any div5 teams play I can't comment on the standard of play in that division. I do know a few of northern utd's players though and on paper they have got a reasonable team. It is probably true that they would struggle in div 4 but that is why they are in div 5. Not everyone can be as gifted as I'm assuming radioactive man is but I'm sure they still enjoy having a kick on a Sunday. If playing div 5 is what they enjoy doing then what's the problem :?:
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Re: who thinks div5 should b scraped?

Post by ManicD »

radioactive man wrote:div 5 is a joke athelstone is the only half decent side! and if if they werent stuck up tossers they could b agood side! northern utd would get floged by any div 4 side they only get results coz the league is shithouse god they have dave johnson on their bench :lol:
My god... when presented with such a convincing argument how could you not agree...

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Post by Rooooney »

radioactive man I don't know what's worse your blathering or your grammar :roll:

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Post by Robbo »

I have heard this argued at our club before, I agree the Division should be scrapped for the following reasons:

We need those referees (eg B Team matches)
Troublemaking clubs are housed there
The standard is ordinary, interest is minimal

I believe the general Amateur League needs an overhaul like the rest of the soccer leagues around the nation. It is too "Amateur."

Things need to be addressed like:
-the referee shortages, Reserve matches are a disgrace
-late league fixturing in March/April ? .. every year
-prizemoney for league winners!! ??
-TROPHY for league winners!! ?? as well the shield
-NO regular meetings between clubs and the league for feedback and communication purposes
-the league headquarters being based at Grange when 60% of teams are in the Northern Suburbs (League should be central to ALL)
-errors in fixturing, disorganized
-a,b,c team fixturing bewildering and frustrating
-poor functional website that is too slow and difficult to navigate

I hear the league is soundly financial, I cannot understand why it has to be so "Amateur." So frustrating.

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Post by Di Canio »

Robbo you have some valid points. However I am not aware of the league making an effort to resolve any of the problems you have listed. What makes you think anything will change if div 5 is scrapped? It would free up three referees a week to possibly do reserve games but that's about it.
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Post by Robbo »

Dicanio here is the thing. 11 blokes can get together at the moment and form a soccer club. 22 players and they can get into Div 5. This means anybody. There is no "standard" this club must adhere to so to speak.

Lets say a club has been kicked out of the league .. the players have nowhere to play. They can just re-form under a new name and join the league in its lowest division.

I believe in 4 Sunday Divisions only atm.
A waiting list of clubs should be made to enter these leagues who can all play in the lower divisions against each other, let them find their own referees, the results matter little.

From there only deserving clubs can be entered into the elite 4 divisions - when they have met criteria that has been agreed to by all clubs.

I believe if you get the 4 divisions "under control" then the league will have no problem finding referees for B Team matches etc

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Post by Di Canio »

Fair point Robbo, I can see where you're coming from and when put like that it does sound like a reasonable idea.

I do agree that the amateur league is in desperate need of an overhaul. Unfortunately I can't see it happening under the current management committee.

Just wondering does anyone know if the amateur league or the referees association have made any concerted efforts to recruit new referees :?:
I'm very happy to have moved to West Ham, because I can play for a better team than Sheffield Wednesday.
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Post by ruud »

the reason its not high quality is because its DIVISION 5!!!

some people like to play for fun you know? many people have job commitments so they cant be 100% involved in competitive football

and do we all have to be high quality?

who cares if we simply like playing the game we love in a low division

in the end, its up to US to play, so i dont know what your problem is radioactive...
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Post by club man »

Dicanio wrote:Fair point Robbo, I can see where you're coming from and when put like that it does sound like a reasonable idea.

I do agree that the amateur league is in desperate need of an overhaul. Unfortunately I can't see it happening under the current management committee.

Just wondering does anyone know if the amateur league or the referees association have made any concerted efforts to recruit new referees :?:
Why dont you join the committe and fix it, running the league is not as easy as you may think.

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Re: who thinks div5 should b scraped?

Post by LFTWNG11 »

radioactive man wrote:div 5 is a joke athelstone is the only half decent side! and if if they werent stuck up tossers they could b agood side! northern utd would get floged by any div 4 side they only get results coz the league is shithouse god they have dave johnson on their bench :lol:
half decent and stuck up...? I dnt know if your talking about the same club... we would put some div.4 teams away I reckon, although to be fair I haven't seen any div.4 teams play.

Either way I hope whatever happens to div.5, it wont worry us at Athelstone as we should be in div.4 next season!
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Post by vertu1 »

stop the presses!
LOWEST DIV NOT UP TO THE STANDARD OF HIGHER DIVS!!!

wtf people, it is the amatuer league for ffs
a competition whose ethos should be that you CAN just get 22 blokes together and have a game at the lowest level , thats what it is all about
player participtation and enjoyment of the game
what do you want to do, have a player quality criteria before a new club can join? so who is going to play god and make the decision as to whether a team is good enough for the lowest level amatuer comp or not
do we line up the potential players one by one and make them pass an ability test?

div 5 players pay the same rego as anyone else , it is the same colour of the money in div 1 and div 2 , so they deserve equality of resources
- which they dont get by the way

3 refs freed up from div 5 to do the 20 odd b team games in divs 1 to 4 ?
er, do the math

perhaps teams from higher divs could put a little less money in their players pockets in an ,ahem, amatuer comp and maybe pay some b team refs themselves , even though given the extremely high level of professionalism and club behaviour in the higher divs, one wonders why there would be any issue with getting a notable person from either side doing the refreeing in the b's

if you want elitism then bite the bullet and piss off to the federation
otherwise pull your heads in and take the amatuer comp for what it is, a comp where a bunch of blokes can get together and have a kick

maybe even a bunch of blokes like a man united supporters club hey robbo ?, where a buch of guys with similar interest can get together for fun in the lowest division and hey if they climb a div or two and get a few more blokes and a decent coach , then who knows, they could get up to div 3 or 2 . and even then if the club folded the nucleus of the the team could maybe go up the road and give new life to a club that was going nowhere and soon be knocking on the door of div 1 .... all having stemmed from that crappy low division

"from little things big things grow" :- Paul Kelly

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Post by Uncle Cracker »

Well said Vertu1.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

personally i think all football in this state should be under the ffsa. with promotion from div 1 to state league. in the " amature league" make it 4 12 team league's with those that are just looking for a kick on a sunday playing in a pub league. i think we all want to see football go forward and hanging on to clubs that incite violence or have no ambition to improve is not the way to go

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

there are plenty of things that could change within the league, but to be fair the commitee dont do too bad a job.as someone who has been around the top flight for nearly twenty years i dont think we can be to negative on how its run,as the maso pres said you try runnin it ,its not easy.and the other argument about refs, for all the crap and assaults they cop is it any wonder!everybody harps on about them but how many players on their way out become refs, not many! most people think they know and see everything correctly but generally they have blinkers on! amateur refs should be getting better rewarded ,then we might see more retained.there are about 5 fed refs doin amateurs so its obvously not to rewarding.and to the whingers about b team refs, at least there out there, if not there wouldnt be a game. get it DODO

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Post by Robbo »

Virtu1 you make some good points.

However the Reserves need referees in other divisions. Its not right atm.

The current situation makes for reserves players not getting fairly refereed matches, trouble, complaints, disputed results, no best and fairest in the league, no top goalscorer in the lead.

And mate no disrespect, but Division 1 and 2 Reserves teams would pumel you first team in Div 5.

Your right the math doesnt add up, but it will help the problem, not keep delaying its fix. Its about time the Amateur Legue improved what it does to make all it registered players (not just those in Div 5) happy.

I appreciate there is a lot of pride in the lower divisions, however the big picture is more important.

To fix the problem is huge. I criticize the Amateur League for not finding a solution about the referees - I dont see any advertising, or pay increases to fix the problem. Mate it is a mammoth problem in the top 4 Divisions.

Needs to be addressed with soccer in Oz getting bigger

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Post by LFTWNG11 »

Hey robbo no disrespect but I'm thinking there is one div.5 that could probably beat most reserve teams from high division... as a matter of fact i think we already beat the first team of a div.2 team...

In saying that I'm not trying to discredit your point, because you mkae a valid one and i agree with it! Like i said if changes are made next year such as only having four divisions then it shouldnt bother us cos we are out of there after this season!!
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Post by sparts »

how did athelstone go last yr? its your own fault your in that div. were real competitive last year...didnt you win one game?

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Post by vertu1 »

robbo, of course the referee situation could be improved , as could a lot of other things that you have mentioned in this post
but denying people of lesser ability (or of lesser means) the right to play the game at an amatuer level is not the solution to the problems

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Post by LFTWNG11 »

sparts wrote:how did athelstone go last yr? its your own fault your in that div. were real competitive last year...didnt you win one game?
yea obviosuly it is our own fault for being in Div.5, not disputing that... but alot of players that are here this season including myself weren't there last season so were not to blame personally, but we chose to represent the club this season and atone for the clubs dreadful last season.
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Post by sparts »

how many new players have come thru down there leftie?

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Post by LFTWNG11 »

umm im pretty sure out of the current players int he mix for the A's... which is about 15/16, only 2 are from last years team
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Post by OldRedback »

I agree with many of the points made and that many clubs have benefitted from a group of blokes getting together and forming a team and then those players going on to play at higher levels. Much of the money in football is held at the top end and it makes it difficult for smaller clubs to progress and keep up when they have a nucleus of very good players. Witness the Redbacks, whose original players now turn out for other clubs, because the Redbacks had to fold as it was difficult to keep a club going despite success on the park - it may be true that they should have remained a Div 5 club and that all those mates could play together again - many of whom would love nothing more than to play as a Redback again. Until then the Redbacks loss is many other clubs' gain. Surely it is not a good thing that smaller clubs have to go under and such strong team and club spirit lies hidden and latent under the banner of other clubs?

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Post by club man »

OldRedback wrote:I agree with many of the points made and that many clubs have benefitted from a group of blokes getting together and forming a team and then those players going on to play at higher levels. Much of the money in football is held at the top end and it makes it difficult for smaller clubs to progress and keep up when they have a nucleus of very good players. Witness the Redbacks, whose original players now turn out for other clubs, because the Redbacks had to fold as it was difficult to keep a club going despite success on the park - it may be true that they should have remained a Div 5 club and that all those mates could play together again - many of whom would love nothing more than to play as a Redback again. Until then the Redbacks loss is many other clubs' gain. Surely it is not a good thing that smaller clubs have to go under and such strong team and club spirit lies hidden and latent under the banner of other clubs?

Money does not make a club, the clubs in the higher divisions have hard working commities who keep the clubs alive. Many Redback boys are at the Lions and seem to be HAPPY. :D The LIONS had to start all over, with no money in the Bank and still going strong.

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Post by Lion Tamer »

Where does this old redback play?? Is he now a Lion??

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Post by OldRedback »

Agreed that money does not make a club (although it does help) and that there does need a committment from all within a club or at least some to be well connected and bring in sponsorship dollars - it just goes to prove that it does take more than just 11 blokes who want to play to keep a club going so hats off to those in Div 5.

By the way if the Lions have some of the Redback boys then that is another club to benefit that I wasn't aware of!

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Post by OldRedback »

Sorry Maso pres , I just re- read your post and realised that your Lions are not USC or Para Hills versions of the king of the jungle.

Maso did well from the Redbacks and got some good players and top blokes.

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Post by club man »

:D
Last edited by club man on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by sparts »

so where did the majority of these new players come from leftwing? such as yourself?

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Post by Robbo »

maso pres good point about the committee.

Those clubs in higher Divisions do all share that same trait that they all have strong, hard-working committees and volunteers. And - yes of course - the committees in Div 5 work hard too!!

Clubs that do the right thing deserve to be treated better with refereeing, prizemoney, support from the league, statistics/records etc.

Oh and I realize it isnt easy to run a league. Good to throw some ideas around and get people talking positive about the future of the league tho.

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