Man Utd

The forum is for discussion of club football outside Australia and national team football Please do not post any offensive or malicious comments.

Moderators: BillShankly, arxidi, ruud, Judge Judy, Forum Admins

Post Reply
User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Well the squad was good enough to win Fergie the league in his last year so obviously it was good enough. But yes the writing was on the wall that the side was aging. So where was Woodward and co then? Obviously Fergie was happy to focus on winning the league and going out with a bang (something he certainly was entitled to do)
The backroom staff should have been still working on signing players that they want to develop to succeed Evra, Vidic, Rio, Scholes as well as RVP and Carrick who are good but are getting on. Its their inaction over the last 2-3 seasons that has got the club in this position. How are they still in a job?

Everyone cheers this panic buying when they were sitting around for the last few seasons doing what? Its this inaction and poor scouting that has got the club here. Now they're acting all US Government and think that spending all this money will fix the problem.

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

getborn wrote:The cause of it all?

Nobody, least of all Sir Alex ever stopped & thought about life after Sir Alex.

A massive failing for a club of Man Utd's stature .
Exactly everyone sat around patting themselves on the back. Its not like Fergie surprised everyone. I'm sure the club was well aware he was leaving.

I just hope that LvG sets down a decent system to work towards then it will be clear what players are required to be developed for that system. And the powers that be don't start pointing the finger too early and give him the boot.

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Former Manchester United youth guru Eric Harrison has big fears for the club's culture over Danny Welbeck's departure to Arsenal.

Fellow local Tom Cleverley also left for Aston Villa yesterday.

Harrison told the Manchester Evening News: "I cannot believe Danny Welbeck has gone. Okay he might not have been a prolific goalscorer but his work rate and effort was undeniable.

"It is sending out the wrong message when local home grown players like that are leaving. Losing players who have been part of the club since they were young kids means you are losing the heart and soul of the club.

"That’s what the Class of ‘92 were for instance. They were the core and you need that at the centre of your squad."

Harrison admits United's current transfer policy could see them going against the identity they have developed over the past 30 years.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... AaVr0YcQaI

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

Stuckey wrote:
Former Manchester United youth guru Eric Harrison has big fears for the club's culture over Danny Welbeck's departure to Arsenal.

Fellow local Tom Cleverley also left for Aston Villa yesterday.

Harrison told the Manchester Evening News: "I cannot believe Danny Welbeck has gone. Okay he might not have been a prolific goalscorer but his work rate and effort was undeniable.

"It is sending out the wrong message when local home grown players like that are leaving. Losing players who have been part of the club since they were young kids means you are losing the heart and soul of the club.

"That’s what the Class of ‘92 were for instance. They were the core and you need that at the centre of your squad."

Harrison admits United's current transfer policy could see them going against the identity they have developed over the past 30 years.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... AaVr0YcQaI
yeah this news sucks.. at the club since 8 and had the club to his heart, NO MONEY can buy that.. but at least he will get a decent run at arsenal, just hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the muscat

as I said earlier, I believe that LVG is trying to get the club back on track in the shortest possible time while looking at the youth for long term, if the club doesn't end up heading this way (youth) I will certainly be disappointed
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

Old Master
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 7013
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:03 pm
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Man Utd

Post by Old Master »

I can't believe Wellbeck and Cleverly have been let go - they were both amongst the better performers last season.
The older I get the better I was.


FOOTBALL IS LIFE
The Rest Is Just Details

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

Old Master wrote:I can't believe Wellbeck and Cleverly have been let go - they were both amongst the better performers last season.
cleverly has only temporarily been let go
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

totsreds08
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 6667
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by totsreds08 »

Kosta Utd wrote:
Old Master wrote:I can't believe Wellbeck and Cleverly have been let go - they were both amongst the better performers last season.
cleverly has only temporarily been let go
I hope Cleverly returns to man united. Unreal talent he is. Add so much to their team.
Image

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Kosta Utd wrote:
Stuckey wrote:
Former Manchester United youth guru Eric Harrison has big fears for the club's culture over Danny Welbeck's departure to Arsenal.

Fellow local Tom Cleverley also left for Aston Villa yesterday.

Harrison told the Manchester Evening News: "I cannot believe Danny Welbeck has gone. Okay he might not have been a prolific goalscorer but his work rate and effort was undeniable.

"It is sending out the wrong message when local home grown players like that are leaving. Losing players who have been part of the club since they were young kids means you are losing the heart and soul of the club.

"That’s what the Class of ‘92 were for instance. They were the core and you need that at the centre of your squad."

Harrison admits United's current transfer policy could see them going against the identity they have developed over the past 30 years.
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ ... AaVr0YcQaI
yeah this news sucks.. at the club since 8 and had the club to his heart, NO MONEY can buy that.. but at least he will get a decent run at arsenal, just hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the muscat

as I said earlier, I believe that LVG is trying to get the club back on track in the shortest possible time while looking at the youth for long term, if the club doesn't end up heading this way (youth) I will certainly be disappointed
Exactly that's why this situation has me so worried.

BruceLee
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by BruceLee »

The oil clubs have set the standard. Sustained success costs money. Sad but true

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

hey stuckey.. what do you think of Di Maria setting up 3 of Argentina's goals v Germania and scoring one himself also?

still think he isn't worth the money? :)
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

Angel di Maria sets up three, scores one as Argentina beat Germany 4-2 in World Cup final re-match

ANGEL di Maria set up three goals and scored the fourth himself as Argentina trounced Germany 4-2 in their friendly game Wednesday to get a small measure of payback after losing to the host in the World Cup final.

Argentina was up 4-0 after just 50 minutes to dampen the home side’s World Cup title celebrations in its first game since winning the final 1-0 in extra time in Brazil in July.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/football/a ... 7047141052
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

totsreds08
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 6667
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by totsreds08 »

Kosta Utd wrote:hey stuckey.. what do you think of Di Maria setting up 3 of Argentina's goals v Germania and scoring one himself also?

still think he isn't worth the money? :)
:lol: :lol: I hope you don't actually base a transfer fee on a meaningless friendly.
Image

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

totsreds08 wrote:
Kosta Utd wrote:hey stuckey.. what do you think of Di Maria setting up 3 of Argentina's goals v Germania and scoring one himself also?

still think he isn't worth the money? :)
:lol: :lol: I hope you don't actually base a transfer fee on a meaningless friendly.
nah mate.. past performances

but it is good to see him on fire... is it not?
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by The Kop »

Yep he’s quite a player.
No excuses for not challenging the title now.
No Europe & world class players and manager.

Only reason Liverpool did it was cos of Suarez and no Europe, so that’s the benchmark then.
Image

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

The Kop wrote:Yep he’s quite a player.
No excuses for not challenging the title now.
No Europe & world class players and manager.

Only reason Liverpool did it was cos of Suarez and no Europe, so that’s the benchmark then.

wouldn't quite say that kopaki.. new manager, new team, new philosophy and playing style take time to take fruition, which by then the race for the title may well be over, especially considering the cut-throat comp it has become..

Top 4 spot would be more realistic
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

Del Boca Vista
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:37 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Del Boca Vista »

baaahahahaha can't believe they're all talking about the international friendlies

MegaBonus
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7241
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:43 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Man Utd

Post by MegaBonus »

totsreds08



:lol: :lol: I hope you don't actually base a transfer fee on a meaningless friendly.

pretty rich coming from a Poo supporter.....so tell us why the Poo spent nearly $60m on Andy Caroll after 1 season in the PL???

Andy Carroll-The biggest waste of money since fat birds with nice haircuts.

Del Boca Vista
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:37 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Del Boca Vista »

Carroll was a transfer target for the next season. I think he had scored 10 goals for Newcastle already in the Prem. LFC obviously had a Torres-sized hole in the team in January and decided to go all out and bring Carroll in.

What on earth does that have to do with.. anything? He wasn't bought because of a friendly.

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Del Boca Vista wrote:Carroll was a transfer target for the next season. I think he had scored 10 goals for Newcastle already in the Prem. LFC obviously had a Torres-sized hole in the team in January and decided to go all out and bring Carroll in.

What on earth does that have to do with.. anything? He wasn't bought because of a friendly.
Neither was Di Maria so this entire discussion is pointless.

Kosta: I agree he's a good player no doubts there. My beef is the price. As I said he was valued at £30m last season. Now just because Man Utd were sniffing around that doubles the price. IMO that means they shouldn't have gone for him. Look at Liverpool in the market £75m bought them Balotelli, Lallana, Moreno, Can and Origi. Or look at Chelsea £62m bought them Costa and Fabregas. Is Di Maria going to as good as both Costa and Cesc? This is my point they guy has basically got to hit the ground playing almost as good as Ronaldo did for Man Utd to offer them any sort of value. Which is obviously a massive ask.

Black_Panther
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 3648
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:56 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by Black_Panther »

Stuckey wrote:
Black_Panther wrote:
Stuckey wrote:[Fair enough this is a result of last seasons crazy signings and if the club wants to get back up there ASAP they need to do this to a point.
I just can't see the sustainability in it. One of the reasons I started supporting Man U was due to them not generally just going out and buying whoever was good at the time.
I feel LvG can get us back to that but it will take time, pain or lots of money in the mean time while the squad learns his system. I guess spending all this money may reduce the time and pain then and then we're likely to lose less supporters over it.

Like with AU when JG came in I'm willing to put up with poor results for a time if its due to the club working towards a goal. I guess most fans aren't.
When was this??????
This was the last 10 years of Fergie's rein. As I said generally, the club obviously did buy players that they immediately needed to fill some spots but generally they signed players that still needed work that then became important members of the squad.

IMO the only players out of all the signings the club made over the last 10 years that were at the top of their game and needed no further development were:
2012 FW Netherlands Robin van Persie
2012 MF Japan Shinji Kagawa
2011 MF England Ashley Young
2009 FW England Michael Owen
2008 FW Bulgaria Dimitar Berbatov
2007 MF England Owen Hargreaves
2006 MF England Michael Carrick
2005 GK Netherlands Edwin van der Sar
2006 DF France Patrice Evra
2004 FW England Wayne Rooney (given his price I included him but given he was 18 at the time is a big gamble)
2004 FW France Louis Saha
2004 FW England Alan Smith
2004 DF Argentina Gabriel Heinze

I'm not saying all these signing were good ones just these weren't project players they came straight in to fill a void. Many other signings still have to develop before they would be considered regular starters IMO.

Its just worrying that we've gone from 13 big signings in 10 years to 7 in 2.
Stuckey, Man Utd have always been a buying team. The class of '92 was pretty much a one off for them in terms of integrating youth players.

I would wager that of the top 20 highest price signings of the last 15 years over half would be for Man Utd.
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. That's why I succeed." -Michael Jordan

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Black_Panther wrote:
Stuckey, Man Utd have always been a buying team. The class of '92 was pretty much a one off for them in terms of integrating youth players.

I would wager that of the top 20 highest price signings of the last 15 years over half would be for Man Utd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _transfers
Top 20 has 1 Man Utd player in it, and its the transfer I'm complaining about.

If Man Utd is a buying club then where is your evidence? I provided evidence to back up my claim that generally they aren't a club to go out and buy who ever is best at the time preferring to develop the players they sign. Until the last couple of seasons.

Doome
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:11 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by Doome »

Rojo can play for Manchester United in the next match now

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

Doome wrote:Rojo can play for Manchester United in the next match now
this is fantastic news.. with shaw due back from injury in the next week or two along with blind, we will be back to a having a formidable defence with some depth.. now they just need to gel and play the LVG way

looking forward to seeing the line up next week.. rojo, di maria, falcao, shaw :)
Last edited by Kosta Utd on Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

Black_Panther
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 3648
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:56 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by Black_Panther »

Stuckey wrote:
Black_Panther wrote:
Stuckey, Man Utd have always been a buying team. The class of '92 was pretty much a one off for them in terms of integrating youth players.

I would wager that of the top 20 highest price signings of the last 15 years over half would be for Man Utd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _transfers
Top 20 has 1 Man Utd player in it, and its the transfer I'm complaining about.

If Man Utd is a buying club then where is your evidence? I provided evidence to back up my claim that generally they aren't a club to go out and buy who ever is best at the time preferring to develop the players they sign. Until the last couple of seasons.
I should have qualified my statement properly by saying in England. Still of that list you referenced of the top 20 English transfers 6 have been purchases by Man Utd.
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. That's why I succeed." -Michael Jordan

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Black_Panther wrote:
Stuckey wrote:
Black_Panther wrote:
Stuckey, Man Utd have always been a buying team. The class of '92 was pretty much a one off for them in terms of integrating youth players.

I would wager that of the top 20 highest price signings of the last 15 years over half would be for Man Utd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _transfers
Top 20 has 1 Man Utd player in it, and its the transfer I'm complaining about.

If Man Utd is a buying club then where is your evidence? I provided evidence to back up my claim that generally they aren't a club to go out and buy who ever is best at the time preferring to develop the players they sign. Until the last couple of seasons.
I should have qualified my statement properly by saying in England. Still of that list you referenced of the top 20 English transfers 6 have been purchases by Man Utd.
True but my point is that 6 of those 12 players in that list have been made in the time between now and Fergie's last season. Which is my cause for concern.
The rest have been made over the previous 10 years. My point is that generally Man Utd sign players that they wanted to develop, then fill holes with ready made players but as I said that has only happened 13 times in the 10 years before Fergie's last season.

Old Redback
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by Old Redback »

More proof that most United fans only think football has been invented in the last twenty years.

Man U have been a buying club. In the 70s and 80s they attempted to buy success and largely failed as they brought in players - Anderson, Stapleton, Strachan, Jesper Olsen, Peter Davenport, Peter With, Colin Gibson, Terry Gibson etc etc etc. It was only Fergie and the fortune that they had with the Class of 92 that has allowed people to think that they are not a buying club. Indeed most have forgotten about some of the awful signings that didn't make the grade because of the success that they have had on the back of an outstanding generation of players that it was ALWAYS going to be nigh on impossible to replace by someone new - LvG has had to buy to maintain any chance of immediate success to appease the new fans and sustain the current business model and standing.

User avatar
Stuckey
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13400
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Stuckey »

Old Redback wrote: It was only Fergie and the fortune that they had with the Class of 92 that has allowed people to think that they are not a buying club. .
So according to you the players signed in 1992 was the reason the club won all these titles in the mid to late 2000's?
As I said the club made 13 ready made signings over that 10 year period. If you would like to go further back that's a different story but anyone with a brain can see that the game has almost totally changed in the UK in the years since the 70's at the top level.

totsreds08
Club Captain
Club Captain
Posts: 6667
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:25 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by totsreds08 »

MegaBonus wrote:
totsreds08



:lol: :lol: I hope you don't actually base a transfer fee on a meaningless friendly.

pretty rich coming from a Poo supporter.....so tell us why the Poo spent nearly $60m on Andy Caroll after 1 season in the PL???

Andy Carroll-The biggest waste of money since fat birds with nice haircuts.
What has that got to do with anything? I didn't try and ever justify Carrolls's fee especially not after a pointless friendly.
Image

Old Redback
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Man Utd

Post by Old Redback »

Stuckey wrote:
Old Redback wrote: It was only Fergie and the fortune that they had with the Class of 92 that has allowed people to think that they are not a buying club. .
So according to you the players signed in 1992 was the reason the club won all these titles in the mid to late 2000's?
As I said the club made 13 ready made signings over that 10 year period. If you would like to go further back that's a different story but anyone with a brain can see that the game has almost totally changed in the UK in the years since the 70's at the top level.
No what I am saying is that Fergie's skill and the class of 92 combined allowed them the luxury of not having to buy in those players to get success - obviously neither was guaranteed but the class of 92 by and large allowed them the luxury of their success not being 'bought'. Liverpool fans often sling the same accusatory statements at City and Chelsea when the truth is that they have spent plenty and managed to 'buy' sweet FA.

User avatar
Kosta Utd
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13616
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:34 am

Re: Man Utd

Post by Kosta Utd »

maaaaaaaaaaaaate who gives a rats ass.. is it coming out of your pocket.. the squad obviously needs a quick rebuild and I am very happy United are buying top quality players.. also for the long term I am wanting the club to continue along with youth.. which im sure they will

I think stuckey has an anti 'marque' policy.. not in favour of either united spending to get good players in :lol:
H _ S T _ K _ buy a vowel?
----------------------------

Post Reply