SBS The World Game: SA youth

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PENALTY 5
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SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by PENALTY 5 »

Did anyone catch the segment on the world game last night about the youth of SA. It was suggested that Adelaide have nothing coming through the system. Haven't produced senior players of late. Any thoughts?
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by redmum »

I tuned out as soon as they introduced Val as "Adelaide's Leading Football Writer" :oops: :oops:
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Blotto »

Tough one to answer.

If you watch the Super League week in/week out you can see the talent is there. It's just a matter of United looking at them. (Rini seems more keen in bringing in overpriced rubbish like Slory - and yes, until I see a vast improvement, he's rubbish for the $$$ he would be on...)

Don't care what anyone says, I still think Kounavelis from ABE deserve a look. (not sure how old he actually is)

No doubt a few of the Metro/City lads are definitely worth a look too.
Last edited by Blotto on Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by BAGGIO 15 »

AUSTRALIAN soccer is walking into a lost-generation disaster months before the FIFA World Cup qualifiers.

Football Federation Australia technical director Han Berger fears Australia's next-generation footballers won't be good enough to fill the void left by the golden generation.

Berger aims to see if these players can bridge the gap when he hosts the Australian national teams' training camp squad in Germany next week.

South Australians James Troisi, Ryan McGowan, Bradden Inman and former Adelaide United attacker Mathew Leckie are among 22 players who will be tested before the Socceroos roll into camp to face Germany.

Berger, however, says SA under South Australian Sports Institute boss Tony Vidmar is on the verge of again producing players capable of playing at the highest level, after SA has seemingly skipped a generation of Socceroos.



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"Adelaide is a football city and Adelaide United is, for me, a real football club and there is a breeding ground," Berger said.

"I can't really say what's happened in the past in SA. But in the last two years, there has been a shift there and they are doing better than NSW.

"I think it has something to do with Tony Vidmar being in charge of the program. SASI is doing very well in that respect."

The Dutchman has identified the age gap - as much as a decade - between the Socceroos' golden players and the next generation.

Berger has revealed the young national teams are in good shape - the Young Socceroos and the Joeys - but he didn't have much confidence in Australia's under-23s and beyond.

However, fresh from winning the A-League double, Brisbane Roar boss Ange Postecoglou - who led the "lost generation" during his national teams tenure - said most of those players were caught in Australian soccer's revolution in 2004.

"The two under-20 national teams were severely affected because of the changeover from national league to A-League."

However, Berger believes once thirtysomething Socceroos Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill, Lucas Neill, Jason Culina and Brett Emerton hang up their boots, the cupboard is almost bare. He has therefore helped draft a Socceroos succession plan.

Players such as Central Coast's Mustafa Amini and Matt Ryan, as well as Adelaide United's Mathew Leckie and Mark Birighitti, are players likely to make the step to the Socceroos via the underage national teams.

Berger also believes Australian soccer currently lacks matchwinning players because development has been flawed. He pointed to most of the A-League's game-changing players being foreigners, when he singled out Adelaide's Marcos Flores and Serginho van Dijk, Brisbane Roar's Thomas Broich and the Mariners' Patricio Perez.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by redsfan »

Yeah i saw it, thought it was a bit weird and probably a couple of years to late. It seems SA football has to a large degree got itself back on the right path and is starting to produce good young kids who will given time be part of the senior national team.

Sure we don't have any right now but whats the point of Val whinging about it and making demands when our SASI team is doing well and AUFC have just signed a bunch of young kids and have a reasonable amount of SA youngsters on the books.

The line about young Aus talent winning Brisbane the league i a bit strange, last i looked Broich, Henrique, Barbarouses, Solarzano and Reinaldo were all imports and played a large role in their success and without looking into the facts i reckon most of the Aussies were from interstate.

imo it was a lightweight poorly done piece.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by BAGGIO 15 »

redsfan wrote:Yeah i saw it, thought it was a bit weird and probably a couple of years to late. It seems SA football has to a large degree got itself back on the right path and is starting to produce good young kids who will given time be part of the senior national team.

Sure we don't have any right now but whats the point of Val whinging about it and making demands when our SASI team is doing well and AUFC have just signed a bunch of young kids and have a reasonable amount of SA youngsters on the books.

The line about young Aus talent winning Brisbane the league i a bit strange, last i looked Broich, Henrique, Barbarouses, Solarzano and Reinaldo were all imports and played a large role in their success and without looking into the facts i reckon most of the Aussies were from interstate.

imo it was a lightweight poorly done piece.
Vals made a few strange comments of late that I wouldn't expect from him.
Possibly not as informed as some feel recently.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Jamie Vardy »

I think it is an over reaction. What does it matter where the kids come from, as long ad they get a go. I heard them talk about leckie and burns and how they aren't from sa. Should we have a go at Melbourne victory for not picking leckie or Sydney fc for not picking up burns? Doesn't matter as long as we have the best kids in the country. It's not about sa.

At the same time I look at producing guys like troisi and McGowan, were doing ok considering our population. Seems like a beat up.. Typical Val stuff. The state of football in sa is in good hands. Sasi program is working. It's where they go from there that is hurting them. Some overseas too early. Dome at the AIS that don't do anything.

Football in SA is doing fine for our population

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

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cfc pirates wrote:I think it is an over reaction. What does it matter where the kids come from, as long ad they get a go. I heard them talk about leckie and burns and how they aren't from sa. Should we have a go at Melbourne victory for not picking leckie or Sydney fc for not picking up burns? Doesn't matter as long as we have the best kids in the country. It's not about sa.

At the same time I look at producing guys like troisi and McGowan, were doing ok considering our population. Seems like a beat up.. Typical Val stuff. The state of football in sa is in good hands. Sasi program is working. It's where they go from there that is hurting them. Some overseas too early. Dome at the AIS that don't do anything.

Football in SA is doing fine for our population
How about the SA lads at AIS? Kamara, Warland, Melling, Izzo. Are they not the future as well?

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Chips »

Im putting my money on Kostopoulos be the next talent to make the transition to the next level.

Young Kounavelis is 24 i think, had trials with the youth league in its first season but think he was just coming off injury or got injured. something along those lines.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by BeNatural »

It's laughable to hear and read that SA has no youth coming through!

You only need to look at the joeys that we had something like 5 players in the squad and now 5 players with AIS. This hasn't occurrd for a long time.

And with Izzo and Melling already having three year deals with Adelaide United how is it that they say we have no talent coming through?

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by gee_kay »

add young Ben Garrucio to that list who's at the AIS
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Juventino »

The old footage was quality.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by perfect pitch »

Mauk and monarco are also at the AIS
not bad for little old sa with 7 sa kids out of a total of 21 at the AIS

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Stuckey »

I think we are getting back on track and in the next 5 years we could easily get back to where we were (if not better)

The stroy is a bit like bagging Rini for getting rid of Dodd and Reid when people don't know who Rini has planned to bring in. You can't bag how a masterpiece looks when the artist is halfway through it!

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by beatles »

Tony Vidmar is doing a sterling job and should be commended - and the results speak for themselves in the SASI performances and the young players picked up by AIS - keep the good work up Tony.

The talent starts from the local clubs and more should be done at the local level to have a proper plan and vision of developing players. Too many players leave the system once they reach u17s or u19s and more should be done to retain these players as most of these players are talented but are lost in the system.


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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by BAGGIO 15 »

Personally the type of coaches that develop players need to be between the ages of 6-12.
To many coaches don't work on technique and are more concerned with winning. Crucial years for development as the ability to learn is so high.

Poor technique is harder to correct at 15-19.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

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BAGGIO 15 wrote:Personally the type of coaches that develop players need to be between the ages of 6-12.
To many coaches don't work on technique and are more concerned with winning. Crucial years for development as the ability to learn is so high.

Poor technique is harder to correct at 15-19.
Totally agree. However, it's no use having technique if you lack the mental capacity to apply it in the right way at the right time. Good players consistently make good decisions. Not enough coaches concentrate on teaching players to do the right thing, irrespective of whether they execute it correctly.
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by PENALTY 5 »

BAGGIO 15 wrote:Personally the type of coaches that develop players need to be between the ages of 6-12.
To many coaches don't work on technique and are more concerned with winning. Crucial years for development as the ability to learn is so high.

Poor technique is harder to correct at 15-19.
Absolutely agree. Correct Technique needs to be taught at a younger age. This is crucial for developing decent players.
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Red-4-Life »

Youth team were runners up, semi-finalists and finished 3rd this season...a pretty good record. Theres a future there with some of these players, they just need to be noticed.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Nice One Cyril »

How bizarre. After my last post, I was just on BBC and found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9421702.stm

No use having the technical ability to play a great pass if you can't imagine or 'see' it in your head.

Interesting stuff.
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by BeNatural »

I would say that this article was a good ploy by SASI and Adelaide united and also FFSA even though there not mentioned to get more funding for their development!

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Ciudad Juarez »

Nice One Cyril wrote:
BAGGIO 15 wrote:Personally the type of coaches that develop players need to be between the ages of 6-12.
To many coaches don't work on technique and are more concerned with winning. Crucial years for development as the ability to learn is so high.

Poor technique is harder to correct at 15-19.
Totally agree. However, it's no use having technique if you lack the mental capacity to apply it in the right way at the right time. Good players consistently make good decisions. Not enough coaches concentrate on teaching players to do the right thing, irrespective of whether they execute it correctly.
+1
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

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thirty2 wrote:I would say that this article was a good ploy by SASI and Adelaide united and also FFSA even though there not mentioned to get more funding for their development!
\

Go talk to Elvis and Tony Vidmar, ask them about their thoughts on the U14 trials for State.

When I started coaching my son (about 7 years ago) I was shocked that we had 6, 7, 8 year olds playing on full size pitches. We're teaching the kids 'technique' but how can they use it to the full potential when they were only touching the ball 25% of the time in a game, with most of the work being running. On top of that teams are playing to win, players are put into their positions and the game is all about the win. Forget about creating something, or playing a beautiful game, just get the ball in the net.

One of my sons Academy coaches, great coach but I'll never forget this, would ask the kids at the beginning of each session "did your team win". It shouldn't and must not be about winning at 10 and 11 years old.

Coaches of juniors must keep it fun, don't put pressure on the kids to win. If the team has played a beautiful passing game of football, if they have enjoyed every moment of it and learnt something they'll come off the pitch laughing and smiling win or lose.

Small Sided Football is a start, but it's not enough. Coaches are still worried about winning, and we've all got trapped into bringing back a form of competition for them again.

Want the best coaches for youth? Go assess the talented kids and find out who their coaches were. Then make sure you don't lose them, use them to explain their ideas and how they coached the kids.

Teach the kids how to kick with both feet, get them practicing step-overs, scissors, the 'Maradona' and so on. The kids love tricks, even if they don't use them very often in a game it's part of their development with the ball and coordination. Ball work must be at least 90% of the training session.
Lots of small sided games; 3v3, 4v5, etc. Teach them about passing and moving, finding space, triangles, and so on.
I could go on all day, it's all on the net and in books, written by some of the best development coaches and clubs in the world.

We've got to change our competition system for juniors, while we're trying to win games and stop junior teams from being relegated coaches and clubs are forced to play a game of winning rather than development. As can be seen by our record against other States and countries we are failing.

Yes we still produce talented players, but the numbers are very low. So low that people outside of our State are starting to notice and ask questions.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by johnydep »

Nice One Cyril wrote:How bizarre. After my last post, I was just on BBC and found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9421702.stm

No use having the technical ability to play a great pass if you can't imagine or 'see' it in your head.

Interesting stuff.
Great article.

One way to get 'football brains' growing is to stop telling the kids what to do and let them think for themselves, they'll make mistakes but that is how we learn.

However, with our competition system a mistake can cost us a game, so kids get reprimanded for a mistake. See were I'm going with this? Modify the competition system so that there is no pressure to win games, let the kids play without counting goals and points for a ladder. Yes they need some competition but that can be done with a FA cup system, or even two.

We shouldn't have the set up we have at the moment where we teach the kids at training, then on game day when they try to practice their ideas we have parents and coaches yelling at them instructions; "kick it now, pass it to Johny, get back to your position now, don't run with it, give it back, run, don't dribble it, stopped that stupid fancy stuff".

The game isn't for the adults, it's for the kids. No adult should be giving instructions, they can clap and cheer but no instructing, mocking or yelling.

Once we get to that stage we'll have more kids with a "football brain", that not only can think for themselves but have used and practiced what they've thought in game situations.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by GK1 »

Nice One Cyril wrote:How bizarre. After my last post, I was just on BBC and found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9421702.stm

No use having the technical ability to play a great pass if you can't imagine or 'see' it in your head.

Interesting stuff.
Great article. I wish he could show some of the drills. I think if we try and employ some of these ideas and elements to development we could see better players than what was produced.

It also mentions that their training methods have benefitted their school work. I'm sure parents wouldn't mind that.

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Nice One Cyril »

johnydep wrote:
Nice One Cyril wrote:How bizarre. After my last post, I was just on BBC and found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9421702.stm

No use having the technical ability to play a great pass if you can't imagine or 'see' it in your head.

Interesting stuff.
Great article.

One way to get 'football brains' growing is to stop telling the kids what to do and let them think for themselves, they'll make mistakes but that is how we learn.

However, with our competition system a mistake can cost us a game, so kids get reprimanded for a mistake. See were I'm going with this? Modify the competition system so that there is no pressure to win games, let the kids play without counting goals and points for a ladder. Yes they need some competition but that can be done with a FA cup system, or even two.

We shouldn't have the set up we have at the moment where we teach the kids at training, then on game day when they try to practice their ideas we have parents and coaches yelling at them instructions; "kick it now, pass it to Johny, get back to your position now, don't run with it, give it back, run, don't dribble it, stopped that stupid fancy stuff".

The game isn't for the adults, it's for the kids. No adult should be giving instructions, they can clap and cheer but no instructing, mocking or yelling.

Once we get to that stage we'll have more kids with a "football brain", that not only can think for themselves but have used and practiced what they've thought in game situations.
+1

When my boys were young I always said that, even if they had time, if the ball was there to be hit or passed with their left, I'd rather they used their left and hit the corner flag, than bring it back onto their right and score. At 7, 8 & 9 they often missed apparently easy chances or cocked a pass up, but I only ever praised them for doing the right thing. Now they're playing seniors and they rarely get the time, they don't have to think, it's automatic and they're both two footed.

It used to drive the coaches crazy though that I didn't give a flying shiraz about the results :lol:
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

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Hopefully the days of picking the 6 foot tall at age 13 players, and the win at all costs mentality has gone. The system here was flawed. Vidmar seems to be doing the right thing and choosing players with ability rather than size. The size comes later. Players develop physically at different ages.

You only have to look at Jackson Groves and Craig Goodwin. They did not make SASI, and it has not hampered their ability. Groves has gone on to be a great player for Metro and an AU youth team player. He was small at 14 and now has developed with a good physique. Goodwin was a small player at 14 as well. His size did not come until he reached 18. He was outstanding at Raiders and now plays at Oakleigh Cannons in the VPL alongside A-League players. Melbourne Heart are looking at his games. How he did not get into the AU youth team is very strange.

But the common denominator is that they believed in themselves and did not give up. Too many kids quit when they get a knock back. These kids are two mentally strong characters. Prove the guys who said that you won't make it wrong.

It is good that Rini is having a clean out at AU. Start with a new slate then you can see what you are really working with. The old boys club mentality was not good for the future of the club. The next two years will be interesting.
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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by Ginger Pele »

Nice One Cyril wrote:How bizarre. After my last post, I was just on BBC and found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9421702.stm

No use having the technical ability to play a great pass if you can't imagine or 'see' it in your head.

Interesting stuff.
Top Article and so much the truth isnt it.

I have already adopted an approach with my U9's that at certain points of the session I say nothing and they coach themselves and problem solve at the same time.

Whether their decisions are right or wrong is irrelevant....They are already using their brains without any input from me

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Re: SBS The World Game: SA youth

Post by maximum »

Hopefully the days of picking the 6 foot tall at age 13 players, and the win at all costs mentality has gone.


I,d hate to be six foot tall at 13 and talented,I might be stereo typed as technically inept and not worthy of being further developed.

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