Relegation/Promotion

This forum is for discussion relating to junior football.

Moderators: John Cena, Forum Admins

Post Reply
Rookie
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:03 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Relegation/Promotion

Post by Rookie »

How does it work in the Juniors, is it top 2 bottom 2?

Pie and Bovril
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:42 pm

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Rookie wrote:How does it work in the Juniors, is it top 2 bottom 2?
not necessarily, FFSA make it up each year.

Migrant Land
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 672
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:47 pm

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by Migrant Land »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
Rookie wrote:How does it work in the Juniors, is it top 2 bottom 2?
not necessarily, FFSA make it up each year.
If you are one of ffsa's pets, you never get relegated.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45504
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by God is an Englishman »

Migrant Land wrote:If you are one of ffsa's pets, you never get relegated.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

Rookie
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:03 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by Rookie »

so what the league will continue to let the kids get flogged week in week out, and why would the club want to do that??

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

Rookie wrote:so what the league will continue to let the kids get flogged week in week out, and why would the club want to do that??
The $$

limozeen
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7832
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:20 am

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by limozeen »

What they need to do is take a more sensible approach to next year's U12 JPL comp. I know they had 9 rounds of grading but the initial set up was very poorly done with double digit score lines and 20+ Nil games regular during the grading rounds.

Even an educated guess as to which teams are likely to be strong and which may struggle would give a more even start to the season.
Go Reds

Check out Ground Phase at...
http://www.reverbnation.com/groundphase
http://youtu.be/TkdT5gPXQkM

'66 '68 '69 '71 '73 '76 '78 '13 '15

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

limozeen wrote:What they need to do is take a more sensible approach to next year's U12 JPL comp. I know they had 9 rounds of grading but the initial set up was very poorly done with double digit score lines and 20+ Nil games regular during the grading rounds.

Even an educated guess as to which teams are likely to be strong and which may struggle would give a more even start to the season.
I disagree completely, clubs like Fulham and Sturt have massive numbers coming through their miniroos. The FFSA would not have put Sturt in a strong group but they find themselves second on the JPLA ladder and in the semi-final of the cup. The new system of 9 rounds of grading works perfectly and is a massive improvement on the previous system of a full season of regional divisions and big scorelines.

limozeen
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7832
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:20 am

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by limozeen »

magnet wrote:
limozeen wrote:What they need to do is take a more sensible approach to next year's U12 JPL comp. I know they had 9 rounds of grading but the initial set up was very poorly done with double digit score lines and 20+ Nil games regular during the grading rounds.

Even an educated guess as to which teams are likely to be strong and which may struggle would give a more even start to the season.
I disagree completely, clubs like Fulham and Sturt have massive numbers coming through their miniroos. The FFSA would not have put Sturt in a strong group but they find themselves second on the JPLA ladder and in the semi-final of the cup. The new system of 9 rounds of grading works perfectly and is a massive improvement on the previous system of a full season of regional divisions and big scorelines.
I'm not suggesting you don't have grading. Still have grading and teams can go up and down after that period, but simply try to get the initial set up a little less one sided.

Losing 22-0 teaches the winners nothing and humiliates the losers. I don't think those outcomes are good for anyone concerned.

Sure Sturt may have started in a lower Div but after grading end up in JPL A.
Go Reds

Check out Ground Phase at...
http://www.reverbnation.com/groundphase
http://youtu.be/TkdT5gPXQkM

'66 '68 '69 '71 '73 '76 '78 '13 '15

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

limozeen wrote:
magnet wrote:
limozeen wrote:What they need to do is take a more sensible approach to next year's U12 JPL comp. I know they had 9 rounds of grading but the initial set up was very poorly done with double digit score lines and 20+ Nil games regular during the grading rounds.

Even an educated guess as to which teams are likely to be strong and which may struggle would give a more even start to the season.
I disagree completely, clubs like Fulham and Sturt have massive numbers coming through their miniroos. The FFSA would not have put Sturt in a strong group but they find themselves second on the JPLA ladder and in the semi-final of the cup. The new system of 9 rounds of grading works perfectly and is a massive improvement on the previous system of a full season of regional divisions and big scorelines.
I'm not suggesting you don't have grading. Still have grading and teams can go up and down after that period, but simply try to get the initial set up a little less one sided.

Losing 22-0 teaches the winners nothing and humiliates the losers. I don't think those outcomes are good for anyone concerned.

Sure Sturt may have started in a lower Div but after grading end up in JPL A.
How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.

limozeen
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7832
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:20 am

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by limozeen »

magnet wrote:[Sure Sturt may have started in a lower Div but after grading end up in JPL A.
How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.[/quote]
Maybe FFSA should start tracking performance of the U11 miniroos squads. While scores aren't kept or recorded maybe they should be in the back end so these things can be done with more data at hand.

Or even ask the clubs where they think their team is at.

If you just say this is better than 2 years ago so leave it alone then nothing will improve. I'm glad they made the change and it's a start but I think it could be refined even more down the track. I only come at this from the perspective of the kids, I hate seeing kids getting destroyed on the pitch. It's the quickest way to kill the passion and enjoyment of the sport which is a big shame.
Go Reds

Check out Ground Phase at...
http://www.reverbnation.com/groundphase
http://youtu.be/TkdT5gPXQkM

'66 '68 '69 '71 '73 '76 '78 '13 '15

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

limozeen wrote:Maybe FFSA should start tracking performance of the U11 miniroos squads. While scores aren't kept or recorded maybe they should be in the back end so these things can be done with more data at hand.

Or even ask the clubs where they think their team is at.

If you just say this is better than 2 years ago so leave it alone then nothing will improve. I'm glad they made the change and it's a start but I think it could be refined even more down the track. I only come at this from the perspective of the kids, I hate seeing kids getting destroyed on the pitch. It's the quickest way to kill the passion and enjoyment of the sport which is a big shame.
At the delegates meeting it was seen as a resounding success. The focus now is to grade the JSL which has far more blowout scorelines that JPL.

limozeen
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7832
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:20 am

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by limozeen »

magnet wrote:
limozeen wrote:Maybe FFSA should start tracking performance of the U11 miniroos squads. While scores aren't kept or recorded maybe they should be in the back end so these things can be done with more data at hand.

Or even ask the clubs where they think their team is at.

If you just say this is better than 2 years ago so leave it alone then nothing will improve. I'm glad they made the change and it's a start but I think it could be refined even more down the track. I only come at this from the perspective of the kids, I hate seeing kids getting destroyed on the pitch. It's the quickest way to kill the passion and enjoyment of the sport which is a big shame.
At the delegates meeting it was seen as a resounding success. The focus now is to grade the JSL which has far more blowout scorelines that JPL.
Mmm. Cool.
Go Reds

Check out Ground Phase at...
http://www.reverbnation.com/groundphase
http://youtu.be/TkdT5gPXQkM

'66 '68 '69 '71 '73 '76 '78 '13 '15

matty2323
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:20 pm

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by matty2323 »

magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

matty2323 wrote:
magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.
That happens at older age groups but not at 12's.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45504
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by God is an Englishman »

matty2323 wrote:
magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.
How many clubs have an active JTD though?

I know it's different pitches and different number (and possibly different players) but surely you can gain an idea from how the Under 11's performed.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45504
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by God is an Englishman »

matty2323 wrote:
magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.
How many clubs have an active JTD though?

I know it's different pitches and different number (and possibly different players) but surely you can gain an idea from how the Under 11's performed.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

fball12
Promising Junior
Promising Junior
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by fball12 »

God is an Englishman wrote:
matty2323 wrote:
magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.
How many clubs have an active JTD though?

I know it's different pitches and different number (and possibly different players) but surely you can gain an idea from how the Under 11's performed.
Yes Under 11 performance would be the best guide to how they will perform in Under 12.
Exceptions would be if numerous players left a team.

rossonero
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:53 am

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by rossonero »

Yes Under 11 performance would be the best guide to how they will perform in Under 12.
Exceptions would be if numerous players left a team.[/quote]

I disagree, we have a team that didn't win a game at u11s and this year they are one of the better squads in the u12A with pretty much the same players.

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by magnet »

fball12 wrote:Yes Under 11 performance would be the best guide to how they will perform in Under 12.
Exceptions would be if numerous players left a team.
2016/2017 season they placed teams in regional zones in rounds 1-9. Then they discovered the central/northern region was too strong. This season they have mixed it up and while there were blowouts it made it fairer when moving the the teams into A, B and C divisions. The current results are much closure than in previous years.

Rookie
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:03 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Relegation/Promotion

Post by Rookie »

God is an Englishman wrote:
matty2323 wrote:
magnet wrote:How do you grade a team that hasn't played before? The new system works so much better than the system which was in place a couple of years ago. Teams would have to play 21 games in which they were getting flogged.
As naive as this may sound, is it worth asking the clubs? Clubs asked to submit where they believe their teams should rank (pool a,b or c) and then after 9 rounds, this can be adjusted. A club/JTD with the right intentions would recognise what level would best suit the players and you could avoid some of those big blow outs in the early 9 rounds.
How many clubs have an active JTD though?

I know it's different pitches and different number (and possibly different players) but surely you can gain an idea from how the Under 11's performed.
i would have thought this would be the most sensible way to go

Post Reply