SAP ?

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convert34
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SAP ?

Post by convert34 »

Is there still a SAP program run by FFSA ?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by limozeen »

convert34 wrote:Is there still a SAP program run by FFSA ?
Yes
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Re: SAP ?

Post by N5 1BH »

I think it has been compromised recently though as the club TDs have reached a consensus that the special ones development will be better fast tracked (and anxious parents quieted) by bumping them up to U18s. They will address the fact that the U18s will then be basically the same as U13s when the horse has already bolted.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by convert34 »

what age does it start ?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by magicfootball1 »

N5 1BH wrote:I think it has been compromised recently though as the club TDs have reached a consensus that the special ones development will be better fast tracked (and anxious parents quieted) by bumping them up to U18s. They will address the fact that the U18s will then be basically the same as U13s when the horse has already bolted.
WTF? SAP is u12 is it not? who is playing a 12 tr old in u18? sorry this is a weird comment, care to elaborate?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by N5 1BH »

magicfootball1 wrote:
N5 1BH wrote:I think it has been compromised recently though as the club TDs have reached a consensus that the special ones development will be better fast tracked (and anxious parents quieted) by bumping them up to U18s. They will address the fact that the U18s will then be basically the same as U13s when the horse has already bolted.
WTF? SAP is u12 is it not? who is playing a 12 tr old in u18? sorry this is a weird comment, care to elaborate?
Sorry 13s into 18s what was I thinking ? Isn't happening, not even close. And stic will go from strength to strength.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Chocco »

To bring the question back to what it was asked.
Yes there is a sap program and it runs from younger age group than just 12.
Speak with your club as the player needs to be nominated for the trials. I am pretty sure for sap it is mostly in the off season but trials will be soon. From there once they hit 12 ish then the stic program then Skillaroos etc.
At the beginning of the program it was really for the elite and the federation never charged nowdays it is very open, the kids are still the best going around at the time but not all are elite and every player needs to pay like they are at a club.

This year the federation did the normal Tasmania tournament where they Usally take 20 players from all the local u11 sap programs but this time they took every sap player ( parents have to pay for the privellage)

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Re: SAP ?

Post by limozeen »

Becoming more of a revenue raiser than genuine elite path way.
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Re: SAP ?

Post by themessenger »

limozeen wrote:Becoming more of a revenue raiser than genuine elite path way.
What a huge shame for those talented young players who are from financially disadvantaged backgrounds.

Bring back merit based selection for these talent identification programs.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Chocco »

How offen do you hear, gee can play ausssie rules for 150 a year and soccer clubs charge 7,8,900 a year.

The player with all the talent in the world does not pay the money then they won’t play.

Ffsa should give scholarships for everyclub and should limit to one team per age group for state team duties and the child should not have to pay for it.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by N5 1BH »

Chocco wrote:How offen do you hear, gee can play ausssie rules for 150 a year and soccer clubs charge 7,8,900 a year.

The player with all the talent in the world does not pay the money then they won’t play.
I don’t think you're fully accross the complexities of junior football. All Aussie rules juniors have to worry about is funding ground maintenance, equipment, coaching, admin/officiating where as in ffsa junior football they have to pay for ground maintenance and equipment and coaching and admin/officiating. See the difference ?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by convert34 »

not sure how we will ever compete on the world stage if only rich kids get a gig?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by romarios shin »

convert34 wrote:not sure how we will ever compete on the world stage if only rich kids get a gig?
my son plays with a couple of really good kids who could easily move up to SAP and that pathway through the junior ranks, they have the talent but you know their parents are already struggling to pay junior fees, so they have no chance...
its a shame but that's the way it is going, its becoming an elite sport for the chosen few!

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Slide Tackle »

romarios shin wrote:
convert34 wrote:not sure how we will ever compete on the world stage if only rich kids get a gig?
my son plays with a couple of really good kids who could easily move up to SAP and that pathway through the junior ranks, they have the talent but you know their parents are already struggling to pay junior fees, so they have no chance...
its a shame but that's the way it is going, its becoming an elite sport for the chosen few!
Spot On, soon football will be only for the rich.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by The Shape »

Slide Tackle wrote:
romarios shin wrote:
convert34 wrote:not sure how we will ever compete on the world stage if only rich kids get a gig?
my son plays with a couple of really good kids who could easily move up to SAP and that pathway through the junior ranks, they have the talent but you know their parents are already struggling to pay junior fees, so they have no chance...
its a shame but that's the way it is going, its becoming an elite sport for the chosen few!
Spot On, soon football will be only for the rich.

Just asking?

Have any SAP kids moved onto professional contracts?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Migrant Land »

limozeen wrote:Becoming more of a revenue raiser than genuine elite path way.
+1

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Migrant Land »

Slide Tackle wrote:
romarios shin wrote:
convert34 wrote:not sure how we will ever compete on the world stage if only rich kids get a gig?
my son plays with a couple of really good kids who could easily move up to SAP and that pathway through the junior ranks, they have the talent but you know their parents are already struggling to pay junior fees, so they have no chance...
its a shame but that's the way it is going, its becoming an elite sport for the chosen few!
Spot On, soon football will be only for the rich.
Sad but true.
Administration should put football first, and financial aims should be secondary. As long as finances can sustain the sport, put football first, don't aim to maximize profits at the expense of growing the game.
Remember, you're meant to be a NON-PROFIT organization. Remember your charter.
And that doesn't mean the tv and other monies are pocketed by a bloated bureaucracy.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by hudsona »

Just asking?

Have any SAP kids moved onto professional contracts?[/quote]

From FFSA annual report 2016
"PLAYERS IDENTIFIED THROUGH THE FFSA PROGRAM
Our vision continuous to be long term and we are starting to see some positive results. It is particular pleasing to see
a number of players that have been part of the FFSA program receiving the opportunity at the top level of the game in
Australia, with Adelaide United and other A League clubs as well as our NPL competition."

Players Identified Through The FFSA Program (Last 5 Years)
AIS Joeys
Joshua Barresi, John Karatzas, Dylan Pickett, Ben Warland, Jordan Pudler, Mark Ochieng, Marc Marino, Dylan Smith, Christian Verbi, Zak Walters, Riley McGree, Tommy Stokes, Charlie Devereaux, Stefan Mauk, Lachlan Brook, Ryan Yates, Marco Krantis, Jasper Kelly, Louis D'Arrigo, Melad Ahmad.

Au Youth team
Daniel Margush, Riley McGree, Jordan Maricic, Tommy Stokes, Alec Maiolo, Isaac Richards, Ben Warland, Jordan O'Doherty, Jordan Maricic, Apostoos Stamatelopoulos, Marc Marino, Aladdin Irabona, March Ochieng, Blake Carpenter, Ryan Yates, Charlie Devereaux, Zak Waters, Paul Wilson, Lachlan Brook, Bailey Truscott.

FFSA NPL
Adam Piscioneri, Nicholas Polli, Dylan Smith, Anthony Trimboli, Jordan Pudler, David Signore, Carlo Armiento, John Karatzas, Alex Solari, Chris Skull, Zach Hristodoulopoulos, Elvis Kamsoba, Michael Gravas, Alexander Woodlands, Bailey Truscott, Liam Miller, Jack Yull, Allan Welsh, Bradley Corbo, Paul Radice, Shaun Harvey, Dion Kirk, Anthony Costa,

A League
Daniel margush, Riley McGree, Dylan Smith, Ben Warland, Marc Marino, March Ochieng, Joshua Barresi, Brandon Borrello, Ryan itto, Ben Garrucio, Jacob melling, Jordan Elsey, Jordan O'Doherety, Lachlan Brook

Overseas
Stafan Mauk, Awer Mabil, Thomas Deng, Franz Pjetri

Not sure of others that came through last year.

see that Lous D'Arrigo just won Foxtel Nationa Youth League Player of the year.
He was a part of the first FFSA SAP age group in 2011 as a 10 year old...and participated in all of the FFSA development squads along the way.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by Sacred Noodle »

Out of all the above only three players playing overseas (Franz is back here playing NPL as far as I am aware).

There would be a greater percentage of players now overseas who havn't been part of the FFSA programs and there is a significant number of those who have been part of the system who have given the game up altogether.

A lot of those who are still playing and were part of the system are playing in lower league and grades than many others who havnt been part of the system..

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Re: SAP ?

Post by hudsona »

Sacred Noodle wrote:Out of all the above only three players playing overseas (Franz is back here playing NPL as far as I am aware).
'There would be a greater percentage of players now overseas who havn't been part of the FFSA programs and there is a significant number of those who have been part of the system who have given the game up altogether.

A lot of those who are still playing and were part of the system are playing in lower league and grades than many others who havnt been part of the system..

Not sure there would be a greater percentage (or number) of players now overseas who haven't been part of the FFSA prgrams (that are Adelaide players)...Can any Football news families note them please.

on significant number of those who have been a part of the system giving up the game altogether..again who are they? ..and is the suggestion the programs responsible for them giving up the game ? or are they an unfortunate part of the numbers game?


yes can imagine there are many playing that found their level at lower grades...being part of SAP i'd suggest is no guarantee of going on to a higher level....and that not being part of the SAP is no barrier to going on to be a good player.

One thing for sure..talent id sure is not an exact science!
From talent id workshop:
Given the uncertainty, it is about keeping as many as possible, in quality environments, as long as possible.
It is crucial that all supporting environments are just as good (eg. NPL Club environments, Community Clubs)

Couple of links I found interesting:
http://www.getsportiq.com/2013/12/getti ... ll-enough/
https://youtu.be/VfgmIEBZG3A
https://youtu.be/LfUvchfrcS0

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Re: SAP ?

Post by The Shape »

hudsona wrote:Just asking?

Have any SAP kids moved onto professional contracts?
From FFSA annual report 2016
"PLAYERS IDENTIFIED THROUGH THE FFSA PROGRAM
Our vision continuous to be long term and we are starting to see some positive results. It is particular pleasing to see
a number of players that have been part of the FFSA program receiving the opportunity at the top level of the game in
Australia, with Adelaide United and other A League clubs as well as our NPL competition."

Players Identified Through The FFSA Program (Last 5 Years)
AIS Joeys
Joshua Barresi, John Karatzas, Dylan Pickett, Ben Warland, Jordan Pudler, Mark Ochieng, Marc Marino, Dylan Smith, Christian Verbi, Zak Walters, Riley McGree, Tommy Stokes, Charlie Devereaux, Stefan Mauk, Lachlan Brook, Ryan Yates, Marco Krantis, Jasper Kelly, Louis D'Arrigo, Melad Ahmad.

Au Youth team
Daniel Margush, Riley McGree, Jordan Maricic, Tommy Stokes, Alec Maiolo, Isaac Richards, Ben Warland, Jordan O'Doherty, Jordan Maricic, Apostoos Stamatelopoulos, Marc Marino, Aladdin Irabona, March Ochieng, Blake Carpenter, Ryan Yates, Charlie Devereaux, Zak Waters, Paul Wilson, Lachlan Brook, Bailey Truscott.

FFSA NPL
Adam Piscioneri, Nicholas Polli, Dylan Smith, Anthony Trimboli, Jordan Pudler, David Signore, Carlo Armiento, John Karatzas, Alex Solari, Chris Skull, Zach Hristodoulopoulos, Elvis Kamsoba, Michael Gravas, Alexander Woodlands, Bailey Truscott, Liam Miller, Jack Yull, Allan Welsh, Bradley Corbo, Paul Radice, Shaun Harvey, Dion Kirk, Anthony Costa,

A League
Daniel margush, Riley McGree, Dylan Smith, Ben Warland, Marc Marino, March Ochieng, Joshua Barresi, Brandon Borrello, Ryan itto, Ben Garrucio, Jacob melling, Jordan Elsey, Jordan O'Doherety, Lachlan Brook

Overseas
Stafan Mauk, Awer Mabil, Thomas Deng, Franz Pjetri

Not sure of others that came through last year.

see that Lous D'Arrigo just won Foxtel Nationa Youth League Player of the year.
He was a part of the first FFSA SAP age group in 2011 as a 10 year old...and participated in all of the FFSA development squads along the way.[/quote]

That is quite a few kids in a short period of time, that’s great news for the program.

Thanks Hudsona for researching the names.

It would be good to see back to back comparisons from the local clubs to see who wasn’t part of the SAP program but made it through to similar level / achievement.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by N5 1BH »

Goes without saying that the nature of the development structure here meant the stic kids were always going to be fairly well represented in npl & even a league, it was set up to be that way. Points being;

a) how high was the bar set? Football is probably at it’s peak with silly amounts of money flowing through Europe & asia for player transfers and aussie clubs have completely missed the boat.

b) what is the relevance now the a league clubs have their own professional junior set ups

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Re: SAP ?

Post by limozeen »

N5 1BH wrote:Goes without saying that the nature of the development structure here meant the stic kids were always going to be fairly well represented in npl & even a league, it was set up to be that way. Points being;

a) how high was the bar set? Football is probably at it’s peak with silly amounts of money flowing through Europe & asia for player transfers and aussie clubs have completely missed the boat.

b) what is the relevance now the a league clubs have their own professional junior set ups
Well if all the A-League clubs implement true junior programmes from U7 upwards then there is no more relevance really.
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Re: SAP ?

Post by hudsona »

limozeen wrote:
N5 1BH wrote:Goes without saying that the nature of the development structure here meant the stic kids were always going to be fairly well represented in npl & even a league, it was set up to be that way. Points being;

a) how high was the bar set? Football is probably at it’s peak with silly amounts of money flowing through Europe & asia for player transfers and aussie clubs have completely missed the boat.

b) what is the relevance now the a league clubs have their own professional junior set ups
Well if all the A-League clubs implement true junior programmes from U7 upwards then there is no more relevance really.
The relevance issue with the A League clubs is interesting....
given talent id around the world thinking goes along the lines "Given the uncertainty (of which players will and won't go on with it), it is about keeping as many as possible, in quality environments, as long as possible."

It seems to me its really a numbers game...broaden the base of the pyramid means more players at the top level.

the A league academies will have around 16-20 players per age group (cue uproar from our local clubs as their 'best' are taken. :) )...hardly seems the right numbers to broaden the base of the pyramid at all.

Current SAP takes in around 20-22 players regionally (north, south, east, west) at U10 & U11...of course total 80-88 players (some have argued this raises revenue and drops quality...we come back to .."Given the uncertainty (of which players will and won't go on with it), it is about keeping as many as possible, in quality environments, as long as possible.")

U12 State Identification Programme stays regional..20-22 players North, South, East West plus around 16 country...total around 100 players. (note this programme is not full time..though runs an extended June through September now...from what was a four week training programme + weekend tournament originally)

FFSA has been actively looking to broaden the base of the pyramid over the last 7 odd years or so...following on from current best practice information.

Would A league academy be willing to work with these numbers ..or more? ( I have my doubts)

U13's in FFSA go to to FFSA U13 squad of around 20 players..and so on until NTC. (still arguable too small a number)

to repeat...
One thing for sure..talent id sure is not an exact science!
From talent id workshop:
Given the uncertainty, it is about keeping as many as possible, in quality environments, as long as possible.
It is crucial that all supporting environments are just as good (eg. NPL Club environments, Community Clubs)

Cue clubs and coaches at all levels continually improving the environments they provide for players to have an opportunity to get to the level they strive for.

I do think the cream inevitably rises to the top.

PS also feel that our football culture here (or lack of it)...with resulting things like players training 2 nights a week for 6 months of the year...do not a top player make! (no matter how good the coach or environment)

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Re: SAP ?

Post by limozeen »

Point is though, that the 16-20 in each age group will be the 16-20 players the A-League teams will focus on and want to keep given the investment they are making in them. Then your SAP kids and other kids will find it near impossible to break into that space.
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Re: SAP ?

Post by convert34 »

when is the 2018 intake for the u10s ?

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Re: SAP ?

Post by magnet »

convert34 wrote:when is the 2018 intake for the u10s ?
August

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Re: SAP ?

Post by manu09 »

STIC, Skillaroos & NTC aren't the only place talented players can be found. I know of 4 kids that have trialled and moved overseas in the last 2 years and they didn't progress through the FFSA programs. Parents and young players should do some research into possible alternate pathways before trusting the words of a few chosen 'experts'.

Nothing beats hard work and practice, if one door closes another will open if you put the effort in.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Slide Tackle wrote:Spot On, soon football will be only for the rich.
Good, I don't like associating with poor people at the best of times. :D
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

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Re: SAP ?

Post by fball12 »

magnet wrote:
convert34 wrote:when is the 2018 intake for the u10s ?
August
How many players per club get invited to trial at SAP trials?

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