Does the JPL need a revamp?

This forum is for discussion relating to junior football.

Moderators: John Cena, Forum Admins

fball12
Promising Junior
Promising Junior
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

Bomber wrote:
fball12 wrote:This JPL/JSL issue will still be complained about next season. The issue isn't magically going to disappear.

Thanks to the apathy of those who think they know better and aren't prepared to change, the JPL and JSL will still be in its current form next season.
Some people are born complainers, you'll never stop it, regardless of outcomes.
Some are progressive, others can't see the change that is required for the benefit of the game and the players.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

fball12 wrote:
Bomber wrote:
fball12 wrote:This JPL/JSL issue will still be complained about next season. The issue isn't magically going to disappear.

Thanks to the apathy of those who think they know better and aren't prepared to change, the JPL and JSL will still be in its current form next season.
Some people are born complainers, you'll never stop it, regardless of outcomes.
Some are progressive, others can't see the change that is required for the benefit of the game and the players.
Progressive? Is that what you call it. Perhaps you can come up with some facts that will prove such benefit via "change".
Ignore this signature

fball12
Promising Junior
Promising Junior
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

Some are progressive, others can't see the change that is required for the benefit of the game and the players.[/quote]

Progressive? Is that what you call it. Perhaps you can come up with some facts that will prove such benefit via "change".[/quote]

Read the forum topics on this issue. If you still don't think its worthy of change, then that is your right.

Many parents with players (past/present) in the Juniors have the view that the JSL is not beneficial to the kids.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

fball12 wrote:Some are progressive, others can't see the change that is required for the benefit of the game and the players.
Progressive? Is that what you call it. Perhaps you can come up with some facts that will prove such benefit via "change".[/quote]

Read the forum topics on this issue. If you still don't think its worthy of change, then that is your right.

Many parents with players (past/present) in the Juniors have the view that the JSL is not beneficial to the kids.[/quote]

That's fine, but the reasons are still trivial at best. Unfortunately I have yet to see anything that will effectively resolve the issues as you see it. If teams get flogged 20-nil week in week out, don't blame the system, maybe take a look and see why teams get flogged and maybe, just maybe, realise that some aren't cut out to play football and should consider something else.
It reflects society in general these days. Kids are no good at school, so what do they do? Blame teachers and implement programs to "assimilate" them with those with better academic acumen. The high achievers then suffer. But hey, it makes the parents feel good so that's all that matters (until little Johnny has to face the real world and cannot cope with the order of society).
No system will be perfect, so until someone comes up with a PROVEN method that accommodates everyone and at the same time wont hamper those excelling at the game, then its just more hot air, finger pointing and whingeing.
Ignore this signature

N5 1BH
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:17 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by N5 1BH »

One fact we do know is that many involved with seniors constantly complain about the decreasing standard and increasing sense of entitlement produced by this current junior system. Would seem curious then that the clubs who are ultimately both responsible for and beneficiaries of said system take absolutely no responsibility for an end product that many within agree to be substandard. Somehow it’s the parents' fault that there is no way enough depth in juniors to give what decent kids there are the edge they need to push up another level.

Getting smashed in the odd game is no issue whatsoever, adversity though circumstance builds character but adversity by manipulation creates disillusionment for some and entitlement for others. If teams get flogged 20-nil week in week out they should be in a realistic div 10 rather than a phony div 3, that way they stay in the game and the better kids in the top divs don’t get held back.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

N5 1BH wrote:One fact we do know is that many involved with seniors constantly complain about the decreasing standard and increasing sense of entitlement produced by this current junior system. Would seem curious then that the clubs who are ultimately both responsible for and beneficiaries of said system take absolutely no responsibility for an end product that many within agree to be substandard. Somehow it’s the parents' fault that there is no way enough depth in juniors to give what decent kids there are the edge they need to push up another level.

Getting smashed in the odd game is no issue whatsoever, adversity though circumstance builds character but adversity by manipulation creates disillusionment for some and entitlement for others. If teams get flogged 20-nil week in week out they should be in a realistic div 10 rather than a phony div 3, that way they stay in the game and the better kids in the top divs don’t get held back.
You have basically argued the point as many see it, however the word "disillusionment" is at the heart of the issue. If kids want to stay in the game for fun, then I don't see what the problem is. If it is a concern that they want to stay in the game but have issues getting flogged 20-nil, then the problem cuts deeper than what divisions the league can come up with.
Ignore this signature

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45512
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

fball12
Promising Junior
Promising Junior
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
+1

Gruppy
Ball Boy
Ball Boy
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Gruppy »

God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Agree, there are some JSL teams that would be able to push up the divisions from Adel City, Metro, Para Hills etc

Mrs Red
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Mrs Red »

God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Agree with you there - but if Clubs dont push the FFSA to change nothing will change.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Then you'll get the usuals moaning about how their kid is playing in div 6 and how he should be playing div 3, and god help us should there be a 10-0 beating down in div 6.
"In a few years teams will sort themselves out" is interesting too. All good if players (and coaches) don't club hop - that never happens does it.
Reasonable in theory, but hardly "simple".
Ignore this signature

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45512
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Bomber wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Then you'll get the usuals moaning about how their kid is playing in div 6 and how he should be playing div 3, and god help us should there be a 10-0 beating down in div 6.
"In a few years teams will sort themselves out" is interesting too. All good if players (and coaches) don't club hop - that never happens does it.
Reasonable in theory, but hardly "simple".
It's very SIMPLE. The dramatic changes in squads will get caught in round 5.

The parent moaning is going to happen whatever system happens.

What's your solution?
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

themessenger
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by themessenger »

Mrs Red wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Agree with you there - but if Clubs dont push the FFSA to change nothing will change.
Ditto, this is the most sensible solution however one of the reasons FFSA brought in the JSL was to stop those bigger clubs such as Campbelltown and Adelaide City, with 2 teams in each age group, from dominating the A and B leagues of JPL and instead hoping those kids in clubs' second teams would move to neighbouring JPL clubs, and spread the talent pool.
The JSL did nothing to address this. Kids just stayed at the bigger clubs preferring to play JSL than go down the road to a JPL club.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Bomber wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:it seems very simple to me -

Next year you keep the top 3 divisions as they are but with top 2 promoted and bottom 2 relegated. JSL becomes Div 4-6 and has promotion and relegation. In a few years the teams will sort out for themselves what divisions they should be. Like this year, make a change after round 5 if it's obvious that it's gone wrong.

This year in the U13's Vista were promoted to the B division after a few rounds and they have a good chance of getting promoted into A for next year.
Then you'll get the usuals moaning about how their kid is playing in div 6 and how he should be playing div 3, and god help us should there be a 10-0 beating down in div 6.
"In a few years teams will sort themselves out" is interesting too. All good if players (and coaches) don't club hop - that never happens does it.
Reasonable in theory, but hardly "simple".
It's very SIMPLE. The dramatic changes in squads will get caught in round 5.

The parent moaning is going to happen whatever system happens.

What's your solution?
Only need a solution if there's a problem. The "problems" are attitudes, not league set ups. Its always someone else's fault, which reflects modern society.
If people are so up in arms about it, do something and enrol in a club and lobby - coming on here and whingeing about all and sundry wont change anything.
To me the only thing that is important are that teams are zoned, so teams in South Adelaide aren't having to play in Playford every other week (for example).
Have zone finals at the end maybe where the cream of the crop can be sorted (maybe U/14's upwards)
Remember, junior football is not about sheep stations.
Ignore this signature

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

JSL is just a battle of clubs B and C teams. It's a local community based competition. Not every kid aspires to be a senior footballer but they do need a chance to play and this structure allows them to do this.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45512
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Bomber wrote: Only need a solution if there's a problem. The "problems" are attitudes, not league set ups. Its always someone else's fault, which reflects modern society.
If people are so up in arms about it, do something and enrol in a club and lobby - coming on here and whingeing about all and sundry wont change anything.
To me the only thing that is important are that teams are zoned, so teams in South Adelaide aren't having to play in Playford every other week (for example).
Have zone finals at the end maybe where the cream of the crop can be sorted (maybe U/14's upwards)
Remember, junior football is not about sheep stations.


The issue is that people should play at an appropriate level. If B (JSL) side is good enough they should play at a higher level.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

User avatar
Bomber
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 56542
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Bomber wrote: Only need a solution if there's a problem. The "problems" are attitudes, not league set ups. Its always someone else's fault, which reflects modern society.
If people are so up in arms about it, do something and enrol in a club and lobby - coming on here and whingeing about all and sundry wont change anything.
To me the only thing that is important are that teams are zoned, so teams in South Adelaide aren't having to play in Playford every other week (for example).
Have zone finals at the end maybe where the cream of the crop can be sorted (maybe U/14's upwards)
Remember, junior football is not about sheep stations.


The issue is that people should play at an appropriate level. If B (JSL) side is good enough they should play at a higher level.
So they win all their games and I assume compete quite well against JPL (possibly) in the cup rounds. Some clubs will identify "better players" and promote them to a higher grade if at all feasible. However even this comes with resistance, again usually from parents or the kids who just want to play with their mates which I understand.
Again, you'll never please everyone.
Ignore this signature

fball12
Promising Junior
Promising Junior
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

Why should the Juniors structure be so different to the Seniors (PL, SL1, SL2) or Amateur Leagues (Divisions 1-N)?

The JSL is an artificial structure which doesn't allow the best competition to flourish and prevents kids playing in the best level competition they can play at.

Slide Tackle
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:17 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Slide Tackle »

From my perspective, clubs such as Paralowie Eagles and Adelaide Thunder who are crying for a revamp.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45512
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Slide Tackle wrote:From my perspective, clubs such as Paralowie Eagles and Adelaide Thunder who are crying for a revamp.

Why should they have to play JSL just because they don't have seniors? All clubs are equal, just some are more equal.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

Slide Tackle
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:17 pm

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Slide Tackle »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Slide Tackle wrote:From my perspective, clubs such as Paralowie Eagles and Adelaide Thunder who are crying for a revamp.

Why should they have to play JSL just because they don't have seniors? All clubs are equal, just some are more equal.
Why should they be apart of the FFSA if they dont have senior team? They could play E&D

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

Slide Tackle wrote:From my perspective, clubs such as Paralowie Eagles and Adelaide Thunder who are crying for a revamp.
Why are they crying for a revamp? They are not exactly romping away in the JSL against other teams B & C teams.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 45512
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Slide Tackle wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
Slide Tackle wrote:From my perspective, clubs such as Paralowie Eagles and Adelaide Thunder who are crying for a revamp.

Why should they have to play JSL just because they don't have seniors? All clubs are equal, just some are more equal.
Why should they be apart of the FFSA if they dont have senior team? They could play E&D
Because the ffsa is supposed to represent all of football, not just adult football.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

N5 1BH
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:17 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by N5 1BH »

Slide Tackle wrote: Why should they be apart of the FFSA if they dont have senior team? They could play E&D
What if they’re from down south, why should a junior club have to have seniors anyway and how can other clubs have a senior team in ffsa when ffsa can’t be shiraz running a league they could play in. People need to understand that football isn’t the sole possession of a handful of clubs. Is it possible attitudes like this explain why no one gives a toss about fed senior football and why they’re now reduced to ripping off kids just to fund over paid, under achieving club hoppers to play at empty grounds in a contrived vehicle for AUFC youth.

magnet
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

N5 1BH wrote:
Slide Tackle wrote: Why should they be apart of the FFSA if they dont have senior team? They could play E&D
What if they’re from down south, why should a junior club have to have seniors anyway and how can other clubs have a senior team in ffsa when ffsa can’t be shiraz running a league they could play in. People need to understand that football isn’t the sole possession of a handful of clubs. Is it possible attitudes like this explain why no one gives a toss about fed senior football and why they’re now reduced to ripping off kids just to fund over paid, under achieving club hoppers to play at empty grounds in a contrived vehicle for AUFC youth.
The FFSA do provide a league for clubs without seniors.

N5 1BH
First Team Regular
First Team Regular
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:17 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by N5 1BH »

magnet wrote:The FFSA do provide a league for clubs without seniors.
Which brings us neatly back to square one

Post Reply