Does the JPL need a revamp?

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

magnet wrote:
snodders6 wrote:Maybe the fact that 12/13-year-old kids play in full-size goals contributes to all these blow outs
Always makes me laugh seeing U12's playing on a full sized senior pitch. U13/U14 in the UK play on 90 x 55 yard pitches compared to 110 x 70 they play on out here. The FFSA don't even have a ruling on pitch sizes.
I've certainly not been out measuring pitches but I don't think too many pitches would be that size.
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

God is an Englishman wrote:
magnet wrote:
snodders6 wrote:Maybe the fact that 12/13-year-old kids play in full-size goals contributes to all these blow outs
Always makes me laugh seeing U12's playing on a full sized senior pitch. U13/U14 in the UK play on 90 x 55 yard pitches compared to 110 x 70 they play on out here. The FFSA don't even have a ruling on pitch sizes.
I've certainly not been out measuring pitches but I don't think too many pitches would be that size.
Hawks played an U13 game this weekend on their pitch and it's 115 yards long (measuring from google earth).

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Mr Red »

magnet wrote:[ U13 game this weekend on their pitch and it's 115 yards long (measuring from google earth).
Who did they play?

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

Mr Red wrote:
magnet wrote:[ U13 game this weekend on their pitch and it's 115 yards long (measuring from google earth).
Who did they play?
Blue Eagles

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Mr Red »

magnet wrote:
Mr Red wrote:
magnet wrote:[ U13 game this weekend on their pitch and it's 115 yards long (measuring from google earth).
Who did they play?
Blue Eagles
Must have been on the main pitch - usually this age group play on the smaller back pitches.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by magnet »

Mr Red wrote: Must have been on the main pitch - usually this age group play on the smaller back pitches.
Metrostars have it right. Three different sized pitches for Juniors. U12/U13 small pitch, U14/U15/U16 medium sized, U17/U18/Seniors on full sized pitch.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Mr Red »

The length of a pitch must be between 90m and 120m and the width not less than 45m and not more than 90m.

All pitches in these boundaries are deemed as full sized pitches its just if your at the bigger end or the smaller end of the limits. Most pitches in SA I would think are around the 100m length mark. But U12's (maybe U13's also) playing on pitches > than 100m in length is probably a bit of a stretch for them. It could be worse you could be in the E&D (Under 9's play on a full size pitch) and have players even younger than this playing on full sized pitches.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by tevez. »

Going back on this topic, I really do hope there is something in the works to scrap JSL and just have A, B, C, D, E divisions. As a coach of a JSL side, there are several quality JSL teams that I have witnessed who could easily be competitive with some JPL A and most of if not nearly all JPL B sides. Looking through a lot of the JPL and JSL tables of numerous age groups there are way too many blowouts.

This would also benefit those boys who are playing for strong JSL sides who feel let down or dissapointed because they are in the 'B' team and aren't playing in the JPL leagues. These strong JSL teams would most likely be playing in the B or C division (under the new system) against other JPL teams now, giving them a better understanding of where they stand as a player against the rest of their age group in SA, also giving them more confidence in their ability. These players would also be happier and more inclined to continue playing with that club for years to come instead of moving else where to play JPL in a 'stronger' league.
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Mrs Red »

Totally agree - its up to the Club Delegates now to push this train of thought with the FFSA. If the majority of clubs wanted this then they would have a good case for FFSA to at least look at change.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by romarios shin »

Mrs Red wrote:Totally agree - its up to the Club Delegates now to push this train of thought with the FFSA. If the majority of clubs wanted this then they would have a good case for FFSA to at least look at change.
I get the feeling our friends at the FFSA will find that too much hard work and the notion will be dismissed.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Pie and Bovril »

tevez. wrote:Going back on this topic, I really do hope there is something in the works to scrap JSL and just have A, B, C, D, E divisions. As a coach of a JSL side, there are several quality JSL teams that I have witnessed who could easily be competitive with some JPL A and most of if not nearly all JPL B sides. Looking through a lot of the JPL and JSL tables of numerous age groups there are way too many blowouts.

This would also benefit those boys who are playing for strong JSL sides who feel let down or dissapointed because they are in the 'B' team and aren't playing in the JPL leagues. These strong JSL teams would most likely be playing in the B or C division (under the new system) against other JPL teams now, giving them a better understanding of where they stand as a player against the rest of their age group in SA, also giving them more confidence in their ability. These players would also be happier and more inclined to continue playing with that club for years to come instead of moving else where to play JPL in a 'stronger' league.
The only change that was floated was the U12's which has now been canned. There will not be any changes to the JSL next Season.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by N5 1BH »

Getting rid of of jsl would absolutely be the right thing to do for juniors and junior football but would the fed clubs see it as in their interest to push for change. It would break up the cosy jpl / seniors cartel that currently operates and open up juniors to real competition.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Pie and Bovril »

N5 1BH wrote:Getting rid of of jsl would absolutely be the right thing to do for juniors and junior football but would the fed clubs see it as in their interest to push for change. It would break up the cosy jpl / seniors cartel that currently operates and open up juniors to real competition.
There's no push for it from the clubs. Maybe some parents and coaches are keen but the FFSA and Clubs are not.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by N5 1BH »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
N5 1BH wrote:Getting rid of of jsl would absolutely be the right thing to do for juniors and junior football but would the fed clubs see it as in their interest to push for change. It would break up the cosy jpl / seniors cartel that currently operates and open up juniors to real competition.
There's no push for it from the clubs. Maybe some parents and coaches are keen but the FFSA and Clubs are not.
Indeed. The clubs want progress but they don't want to progress

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

Self interest all the way in SA (and FFSA)

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by themessenger »

fball12 wrote:Self interest all the way in SA (and FFSA)
Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

themessenger wrote:Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
Would be a ridiculous idea to do that. Why should the standard an 11 year old plays at be judged by how good the seniors are?
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

God is an Englishman wrote:
themessenger wrote:Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
Would be a ridiculous idea to do that. Why should the standard an 11 year old plays at be judged by how good the seniors are?
Who's to say the 11 year olds will be that far apart in standard anyway (regardless of division or where seniors are)?
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

themessenger wrote:
fball12 wrote:Self interest all the way in SA (and FFSA)
Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
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ACCC will investigate if that structure is put in place.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by DAT »

The FFSA are extremely behind other countries in all areas. The best pathway is the road out of the state.
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by justmyopinion »

fball12 wrote:
themessenger wrote:
fball12 wrote:Self interest all the way in SA (and FFSA)
Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
Restraint of trade.

ACCC will investigate if that structure is put in place.
Excellent idea if the FFSA are able to implement - Would deter those clubs, coaches & parents who are obsessed on game results, ladder positions & finishing top or getting relegated in junior football, those parents/players who go club hoping every year trials are on to be part of a better team regardless of the quality of coaching on offer & encourage junior players & parents to be loyal to clubs no matter what division the senior team plays in who have a stronger focus on good quality coaching preparing junior players to achieve winning games at senior level where winning is the main focus.

Hasn't stopped Gawler from producing good juniors or helped ABE in attracting quality juniors so it can work.

Probably won't happen though due to the majority looking for short term success rather than developing more quality players down the track.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Bomber wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
themessenger wrote:Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
Would be a ridiculous idea to do that. Why should the standard an 11 year old plays at be judged by how good the seniors are?
Who's to say the 11 year olds will be that far apart in standard anyway (regardless of division or where seniors are)?
They may be, but it also may not be. Allowing kids to find their own level would mean a greater chance of kids playing at the correct level.
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by themessenger »

God is an Englishman wrote:
themessenger wrote:Have heard it suggested SAASL are considering affiliating with the FFSA.

If that happens it will only be a matter of time before E&D also join or the SAASL clubs start their own junior teams and an entirely new structure for the FFSA junior competition will be introduced.

The FFSA quite likely will implement a grading structure for junior teams so they align with their senior teams. Quite simply that would mean NPL clubs such as Metrostars will have all their juniors competing in JPL while a SL2 club such as Fulham would have their junior teams playing in a JSL2 competition.

There will be no merit based promotion. Junior teams will be graded according to the level their senior team plays at.

The FFSA attempted to introduce this structure a few years ago but the State League clubs voted it down en masse because it disadvantaged junior players at those clubs.
Would be a ridiculous idea to do that. Why should the standard an 11 year old plays at be judged by how good the seniors are?

Exactly. And that's precisely the reason why it got voted down.

Junior teams should be judged on their own performance, have the opportunity to win promotion and be able to play at the highest level of junior competition regardless of which league their senior team is playing in.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by bigmpower »

In my opinion, FFSA need to look what it's main objective is... a few years ago it was trying to establish a structure that would have the best Juniors play
against each other, this is somewhat achieved, but not to what it should be, .... now it's let get as many kids involved in the sport .... which it is achieving
but how good is the quality????

To avoid blowouts and getting the best juniors play against each other FFSA needs to scrap the JSL or restrict it, this is no disrespect to the players in JSL
because there are some talented kids who should be playing in JPL teams and there are some that just wont cut it and should find another sport.

OPTION 1
FFSA need to implement a plan that all clubs can only have 1 team for each age group from Under 12-U16, clubs who have JPL and JSL teams are in
my opinion cashing in on $$ and why it's allowed why not.

OPTION 2

If clubs nominate JSL teams then, then they must be full, (maximum 16 players), nominating a JSL team with 10-11 players and hoping to get late
comers should not be allowed and shows that clubs are cashing in on the $$$, if clubs cant fill a full team by a specific date, set out by FFSA then
it should not be allowed nominate a JSL team, clubs must send in a complete player roster, DOB, FULL NAME , FFSA NUMBER for both teams they
nominate so the system is not abused.

If they can not provide a full list then clubs must release the kids so they can go and find another club, which may in return require players for their
JPL team, this way it will go along way in ensuring all age groups from under 12 up have maximum players and the better kids are playing against each
other thus evening out the competitions.

Now that there are more clubs within proximity of each other some clubs struggle to field JPL teams, because other clubs have 2 teams of the same age
group. Like I said there are plenty of JSL players more than capable of playing in JPL teams, but players don't move because they want to play with the
more fancied clubs.

Having one competition of A,B,C,D,E ect. could work to some degree, but FFSA need to relax their stance on NPL Clubs criteria who MUST field a
team in each age group from Under 6 to Under 16, Under 17 is not compulsory.

The move by FFSA to align Junior teams with their NPL Senior teams will not happen, as this would decimate the lower division senior teams and could
force clubs out of the competition, I don't think most kids care where they play, but I believe it's the parents who want their child to play for the so called
bigger or more fancied clubs, I respect that but it's not necessary the right way to go.

I would believe it to be that some lower senior division clubs would have some excellent coaches and coaching programs in place for their juniors but struggle
to field teams. Football Australia has deemed FFSA junior structure to be one if not the best structure for junior development by not aligning juniors with their
seniors in Australia.

A common denominator with most clubs if not all, junior players leave, the most is probably because they are not getting enough game time as they may not
be up to the standard they should be, but know doubt there would be many other reasons.

For what it's worth it's my opinion and my opinion only, it doesn't mean it's right or wrong, but we need to get a better a more efficient structure in place if we
are serious about developing our juniors to give them every opportunity to play at the highest level, because I don't believe we are.

FFSA have a tough job as it has many stakeholders it needs to accommodate, and as the sport grows its only going to get tougher and harder as different
variable will pop up, I thing I do like is that FFSA are looking at every avenue to make a better system and not just sitting back.

Everyone's opinion on here as some merit, but who's right and wrong? I just hope that we keep working at finding a solution to the problem and tweaking as
we go along.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by God is an Englishman »

Option 1 - where should a kid play who isn't at that clubs JPL standard?
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Pie and Bovril »

bigmpower wrote:In my opinion, FFSA need to look what it's main objective is... a few years ago it was trying to establish a structure that would have the best Juniors play
against each other, this is somewhat achieved, but not to what it should be, .... now it's let get as many kids involved in the sport .... which it is achieving
but how good is the quality????

To avoid blowouts and getting the best juniors play against each other FFSA needs to scrap the JSL or restrict it, this is no disrespect to the players in JSL
because there are some talented kids who should be playing in JPL teams and there are some that just wont cut it and should find another sport.

OPTION 1
FFSA need to implement a plan that all clubs can only have 1 team for each age group from Under 12-U16, clubs who have JPL and JSL teams are in
my opinion cashing in on $$ and why it's allowed why not.

OPTION 2

If clubs nominate JSL teams then, then they must be full, (maximum 16 players), nominating a JSL team with 10-11 players and hoping to get late
comers should not be allowed and shows that clubs are cashing in on the $$$, if clubs cant fill a full team by a specific date, set out by FFSA then
it should not be allowed nominate a JSL team, clubs must send in a complete player roster, DOB, FULL NAME , FFSA NUMBER for both teams they
nominate so the system is not abused.

If they can not provide a full list then clubs must release the kids so they can go and find another club, which may in return require players for their
JPL team, this way it will go along way in ensuring all age groups from under 12 up have maximum players and the better kids are playing against each
other thus evening out the competitions.

Now that there are more clubs within proximity of each other some clubs struggle to field JPL teams, because other clubs have 2 teams of the same age
group. Like I said there are plenty of JSL players more than capable of playing in JPL teams, but players don't move because they want to play with the
more fancied clubs.

Having one competition of A,B,C,D,E ect. could work to some degree, but FFSA need to relax their stance on NPL Clubs criteria who MUST field a
team in each age group from Under 6 to Under 16, Under 17 is not compulsory.

The move by FFSA to align Junior teams with their NPL Senior teams will not happen, as this would decimate the lower division senior teams and could
force clubs out of the competition, I don't think most kids care where they play, but I believe it's the parents who want their child to play for the so called
bigger or more fancied clubs, I respect that but it's not necessary the right way to go.

I would believe it to be that some lower senior division clubs would have some excellent coaches and coaching programs in place for their juniors but struggle
to field teams. Football Australia has deemed FFSA junior structure to be one if not the best structure for junior development by not aligning juniors with their
seniors in Australia.

A common denominator with most clubs if not all, junior players leave, the most is probably because they are not getting enough game time as they may not
be up to the standard they should be, but know doubt there would be many other reasons.

For what it's worth it's my opinion and my opinion only, it doesn't mean it's right or wrong, but we need to get a better a more efficient structure in place if we
are serious about developing our juniors to give them every opportunity to play at the highest level, because I don't believe we are.

FFSA have a tough job as it has many stakeholders it needs to accommodate, and as the sport grows its only going to get tougher and harder as different
variable will pop up, I thing I do like is that FFSA are looking at every avenue to make a better system and not just sitting back.

Everyone's opinion on here as some merit, but who's right and wrong? I just hope that we keep working at finding a solution to the problem and tweaking as
we go along.
Option 1 is ridiculous. Any kid who wants to play should be offered a chance to do so. It's up to the FFSA to design a structure the enables kids of all levels to develop.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

I keep hearing about "blow outs" being so much of the problem. This itself IS part of the problem, ie the voice that gets too much credence.
Little johnnies in life sook if they get walloped in a young age league, hence we have had to do without scores and tables in these leagues over recent times. Maybe I should replace "little johnnies" with "paranoid parents", you be the judge.
Until so many imbeciles understand that in life you don't always get a free ride and that in reality you have to ride the bumps and waves and that part of "development" you need to understand and be taught to not quit, try harder and perhaps use the "wallopings" as a guide to what you might need to aspire to.
There is so much cotton wool being brandied about these days in juniors and trying to fiddle about with league and divisions to suit certain agendas are a negative on the real reasons this country will always be a struggler on the world stage yet "experts" trying to brainwash to the contrary.
Too many look at self righteous literature and psychological factors and ignore basic life fundamentals when linking this issue and end of the day, it has little bearing on what will produce great players as opposed to those who just want to play for the sake of playing. Don't over-complicate was doesn't need meddling with.
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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by romarios shin »

Bomber wrote:I keep hearing about "blow outs" being so much of the problem. This itself IS part of the problem, ie the voice that gets too much credence.
Little johnnies in life sook if they get walloped in a young age league, hence we have had to do without scores and tables in these leagues over recent times. Maybe I should replace "little johnnies" with "paranoid parents", you be the judge.
Until so many imbeciles understand that in life you don't always get a free ride and that in reality you have to ride the bumps and waves and that part of "development" you need to understand and be taught to not quit, try harder and perhaps use the "wallopings" as a guide to what you might need to aspire to.
There is so much cotton wool being brandied about these days in juniors and trying to fiddle about with league and divisions to suit certain agendas are a negative on the real reasons this country will always be a struggler on the world stage yet "experts" trying to brainwash to the contrary.
Too many look at self righteous literature and psychological factors and ignore basic life fundamentals when linking this issue and end of the day, it has little bearing on what will produce great players as opposed to those who just want to play for the sake of playing. Don't over-complicate was doesn't need meddling with.
The most sensible thing i have read on this forum in a long long time.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by fball12 »

This JPL/JSL issue will still be complained about next season. The issue isn't magically going to disappear.

Thanks to the apathy of those who think they know better and aren't prepared to change, the JPL and JSL will still be in its current form next season.

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Re: Does the JPL need a revamp?

Post by Bomber »

fball12 wrote:This JPL/JSL issue will still be complained about next season. The issue isn't magically going to disappear.

Thanks to the apathy of those who think they know better and aren't prepared to change, the JPL and JSL will still be in its current form next season.
Some people are born complainers, you'll never stop it, regardless of outcomes.
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