Movement of players in the Junior Cup

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magnet
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Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by magnet »

I wonder how many teams will be caught out on the cup weekend by playing cup tied players. The rules state that players can only play for one team irrespective of age group. I’ve already seen on occasions this season players playing for younger sides that then turn out in the match afterwards for an older age group. Not allowed in the cup unfortunately and with the so many people taking a long weekend with Anzac day on the Tuesday I can see the FFSA being hot on this.

Great cash cow for the FFSA :lol:

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Sacred Noodle »

magnet wrote:I wonder how many teams will be caught out on the cup weekend by playing cup tied players. The rules state that players can only play for one team irrespective of age group. I’ve already seen on occasions this season players playing for younger sides that then turn out in the match afterwards for an older age group. Not allowed in the cup unfortunately and with the so many people taking a long weekend with Anzac day on the Tuesday I can see the FFSA being hot on this.

Great cash cow for the FFSA :lol:
Pretty sure the rule is a player can play cup in one age group then go up an age group but cannot go down or sideways (ie another same age team).

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Sacred Noodle wrote:
magnet wrote:I wonder how many teams will be caught out on the cup weekend by playing cup tied players. The rules state that players can only play for one team irrespective of age group. I’ve already seen on occasions this season players playing for younger sides that then turn out in the match afterwards for an older age group. Not allowed in the cup unfortunately and with the so many people taking a long weekend with Anzac day on the Tuesday I can see the FFSA being hot on this.

Great cash cow for the FFSA :lol:
Pretty sure the rule is a player can play cup in one age group then go up an age group but cannot go down or sideways (ie another same age team).


"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."

No coach is going to let their player play for an older age group and get them cup tied. Unless they get knocked out at 8:45am :lol:

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Soccer dad 70 »

Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure. I know in AFL football in SA, once you play up a grade you aren't eligible to play down again until the following week. This rarely applies though as most SANFL games at junior levels play in age order. So U16's is on before the U18's, so age eligible players can play both, but usually only play smaller periods of the senior level filling in for late withdrawals and such.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Old Redback »

Soccer dad 70 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure. I know in AFL football in SA, once you play up a grade you aren't eligible to play down again until the following week. This rarely applies though as most SANFL games at junior levels play in age order. So U16's is on before the U18's, so age eligible players can play both, but usually only play smaller periods of the senior level filling in for late withdrawals and such.
Yes that would be a terrible crime if a club played under 16 eligible players in the under 16s wouldn't it?????
Seriously if the kids are happy and able to play then just let them. Other clubs only seem to have any issues with this when they lose....

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Mr Red »

Soccer dad 70 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure..
This can happen no problem for league games - cup games are different once you play up in the cup you are cup tied to the older team. (unless you are a GK then you can move between teams in the cup aok).

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by rossonero »

in the past few years players were allowed to play senior and junior cup games without being cup tied as the FFSA said that it was a different comp. I could never agree with it.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Mr Red »

rossonero wrote:in the past few years players were allowed to play senior and junior cup games without being cup tied as the FFSA said that it was a different comp. I could never agree with it.
That rule has now changed. If a player plays in an under 18 cup game or higher he is no longer allowed to play in any cup game for a junior team.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Soccer dad 70 »

Old Redback wrote:
Soccer dad 70 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure. I know in AFL football in SA, once you play up a grade you aren't eligible to play down again until the following week. This rarely applies though as most SANFL games at junior levels play in age order. So U16's is on before the U18's, so age eligible players can play both, but usually only play smaller periods of the senior level filling in for late withdrawals and such.
Yes that would be a terrible crime if a club played under 16 eligible players in the under 16s wouldn't it?????
Seriously if the kids are happy and able to play then just let them. Other clubs only seem to have any issues with this when they lose....
That's ok. Just a question. Its actually not allowed in most other sport and FWIW, my lads team doesn't allow it. That's why I asked. Just some clarification because the FFSA guidelines are vague at best on most subjects.

His team beat them anyway, so no sours here mate.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Mr Red »

Soccer dad 70 wrote:[

His team beat them anyway, so no sours here mate.
How did they go in the weekends round of the cup?

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by matty2323 »

Soccer dad 70 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure. I know in AFL football in SA, once you play up a grade you aren't eligible to play down again until the following week. This rarely applies though as most SANFL games at junior levels play in age order. So U16's is on before the U18's, so age eligible players can play both, but usually only play smaller periods of the senior level filling in for late withdrawals and such.
We do this a lot. We have an u18 development program of around 25 players who all train together, of which 18 are u16 eligible. We don't have a designated "u16" squad. Players who are either not selected in saturdays u18 squad or play less than 30 minutes are required to play Sunday's in the u16 comp. we aim for our u16 to field around 12-13 players on match day to ensure most players are getting as close to full games as possible to allow a natural transition in senior rules (no interchange, 90 minute game time etc).

i don't think players should be solely associated to a specific team, rather to the club. And where they end of on match day is determined by ability, performance and situation. Players shouldn't miss out on playing a game because at 16, there's a kid in their spot who's a bit ahead of them and is 18. I consider "dropping" players to get the result as stupidity, but allowing players to supplement playing time in an eligible age level should be encouraged.

There's nothing worse than seeing players drop down to get the result and take the place of a player already in the squad. I don't like that. I remember a few years ago when I was at Playford, the 17 team won the cup with 5-6 players dropping down. While they're up celebrating, 5-6 kids from the actually u17 team were sat other side of the fence watching. I'm glad they've changed the rule so seniors and juniors are no longer seperate and you can't play both.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Old Redback »

matty2323 wrote:
We do this a lot. We have an u18 development program of around 25 players who all train together, of which 18 are u16 eligible. We don't have a designated "u16" squad. Players who are either not selected in saturdays u18 squad or play less than 30 minutes are required to play Sunday's in the u16 comp. we aim for our u16 to field around 12-13 players on match day to ensure most players are getting as close to full games as possible to allow a natural transition in senior rules (no interchange, 90 minute game time etc).

i don't think players should be solely associated to a specific team, rather to the club. And where they end of on match day is determined by ability, performance and situation. Players shouldn't miss out on playing a game because at 16, there's a kid in their spot who's a bit ahead of them and is 18. I consider "dropping" players to get the result as stupidity, but allowing players to supplement playing time in an eligible age level should be encouraged.

There's nothing worse than seeing players drop down to get the result and take the place of a player already in the squad. I don't like that. I remember a few years ago when I was at Playford, the 17 team won the cup with 5-6 players dropping down. While they're up celebrating, 5-6 kids from the actually u17 team were sat other side of the fence watching. I'm glad they've changed the rule so seniors and juniors are no longer seperate and you can't play both.
Absolutely agree with all of that.
I have seen 18s squad members at the start move up and leave the 18s squad short so have drafted in 15s squad members who have played on merit in the 18s and play 15s on Sunday - they are now at the point where they should not really be considering playing 16s next year but keep challenging themselves by playing 18s

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

With the majority of JPL teams not included in the preliminary round of the cup, I wonder how many teams will be unaware of the ruling and field JPL players in JSL teams. I'm sure the FFSA will be licking their lips with all the level 2 fines if players then try and play again in round 1.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by tevez. »

Pie and Bovril wrote:With the majority of JPL teams not included in the preliminary round of the cup, I wonder how many teams will be unaware of the ruling and field JPL players in JSL teams. I'm sure the FFSA will be licking their lips with all the level 2 fines if players then try and play again in round 1.
What is the ruling?
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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

tevez. wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:With the majority of JPL teams not included in the preliminary round of the cup, I wonder how many teams will be unaware of the ruling and field JPL players in JSL teams. I'm sure the FFSA will be licking their lips with all the level 2 fines if players then try and play again in round 1.
What is the ruling?
Can't play for two teams in the same age group so if a JPL player turns out for the JSL this weekend he cannot then play for JPL in next round.

Can play up an age group but once up cannot then play down

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by tevez. »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
tevez. wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:With the majority of JPL teams not included in the preliminary round of the cup, I wonder how many teams will be unaware of the ruling and field JPL players in JSL teams. I'm sure the FFSA will be licking their lips with all the level 2 fines if players then try and play again in round 1.
What is the ruling?
Can't play for two teams in the same age group so if a JPL player turns out for the JSL this weekend he cannot then play for JPL in next round.

Can play up an age group but once up cannot then play down
Interesting, didn't know that. Thanks
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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Slide Tackle »

4.2 Players are not permitted to participate in the Junior Cup Competition if they have
participated in a Senior Cup Competition, being the Under 18s, Reserves or WFFA
Cup. Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may participate in the Junior Cup
Competition if age eligible


Can anyone clarify, if a player was only on the team sheet and did not get any game minutes, would they still be eligible to play in Junior Cup comp?

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Slide Tackle wrote:4.2 Players are not permitted to participate in the Junior Cup Competition if they have
participated in a Senior Cup Competition, being the Under 18s, Reserves or WFFA
Cup. Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may participate in the Junior Cup
Competition if age eligible


Can anyone clarify, if a player was only on the team sheet and did not get any game minutes, would they still be eligible to play in Junior Cup comp?
I don’t think it matters because game time in the juniors is not noted. If they are listed as part of the 16 man squad then they would be seen to have played.

I can already see players in this weekends squads that do not usually play for that team. Will be interesting to see if the FFSA pick this up in round 1.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by matty2323 »

Slide Tackle wrote:4.2 Players are not permitted to participate in the Junior Cup Competition if they have
participated in a Senior Cup Competition, being the Under 18s, Reserves or WFFA
Cup. Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may participate in the Junior Cup
Competition if age eligible


Can anyone clarify, if a player was only on the team sheet and did not get any game minutes, would they still be eligible to play in Junior Cup comp?
you have to cross the white line in the seniors to have been deemed to have played.

in the juniors, if you're on the team sheet and haven't had your name crossed out before kickoff, then you have to been deemed to have played.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

matty2323 wrote:
Slide Tackle wrote:4.2 Players are not permitted to participate in the Junior Cup Competition if they have
participated in a Senior Cup Competition, being the Under 18s, Reserves or WFFA
Cup. Goalkeepers are exempt from this rule and may participate in the Junior Cup
Competition if age eligible


Can anyone clarify, if a player was only on the team sheet and did not get any game minutes, would they still be eligible to play in Junior Cup comp?
you have to cross the white line in the seniors to have been deemed to have played.

in the juniors, if you're on the team sheet and haven't had your name crossed out before kickoff, then you have to been deemed to have played.
there are players named in an U18 squad today who are also named in an U16 squad tomorrow. Where do you see whether a player has actually played?

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Hearts »

matty2323 wrote:
Soccer dad 70 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:"Once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group."
Is there any rules regarding players playing in the league season games for the U18's of their club on the Saturday, then dropping down to U16's JPL on the Sunday?

I've heard rumors one particular club has 4 players who are age eligible to play U16 JPL but play U18 on Saturdays, then U16 JPL the following day, every week. Some people involved in the discussion I've heard have suggested that this isn't allowed as they are effectively dropping down a level, but I'm not sure. I know in AFL football in SA, once you play up a grade you aren't eligible to play down again until the following week. This rarely applies though as most SANFL games at junior levels play in age order. So U16's is on before the U18's, so age eligible players can play both, but usually only play smaller periods of the senior level filling in for late withdrawals and such.
We do this a lot. We have an u18 development program of around 25 players who all train together, of which 18 are u16 eligible. We don't have a designated "u16" squad. Players who are either not selected in saturdays u18 squad or play less than 30 minutes are required to play Sunday's in the u16 comp. we aim for our u16 to field around 12-13 players on match day to ensure most players are getting as close to full games as possible to allow a natural transition in senior rules (no interchange, 90 minute game time etc).

i don't think players should be solely associated to a specific team, rather to the club. And where they end of on match day is determined by ability, performance and situation. Players shouldn't miss out on playing a game because at 16, there's a kid in their spot who's a bit ahead of them and is 18. I consider "dropping" players to get the result as stupidity, but allowing players to supplement playing time in an eligible age level should be encouraged.

There's nothing worse than seeing players drop down to get the result and take the place of a player already in the squad. I don't like that. I remember a few years ago when I was at Playford, the 17 team won the cup with 5-6 players dropping down. While they're up celebrating, 5-6 kids from the actually u17 team were sat other side of the fence watching. I'm glad they've changed the rule so seniors and juniors are no longer seperate and you can't play both.
In the last 8 years the Playford U/17 have made the cup final twice and lost both games, in 2015 two player from the u/18 played in the final after playing all the lead up game for the u/17 in the cup, and after playing with those boys from the u/13 to u/16, while the opposition had over 22 players playing during the cup. Still got a axe to grind Matt?

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by matty2323 »

Hearts wrote:
In the last 8 years the Playford U/17 have made the cup final twice and lost both games, in 2015 two player from the u/18 played in the final after playing all the lead up game for the u/17 in the cup, and after playing with those boys from the u/13 to u/16, while the opposition had over 22 players playing during the cup. Still got a axe to grind Matt?
Might not have been 17s then, maybe 16s. It got to the stage where we had first team players dropping down for midweek junior cup/league games. Obviously this is still at the discretion of the first team coach, but in that sense i think you're putting results ahead of development. And given those above where leaning on the coach to do so to look after friends, it was pretty poor to see. Just because someone is age eligible, doesn't necessarily mean they should be playing down.Especially when it was 4-5 from the senior squads, and they were taking game time from actual players involved with that team and the club.

Given that 90% of those that made those kinds of decisions have been moved on, i actually have no axe to grind. Club has reached out over the past 12 months to mend the bridges and apologise for the acts of those involved at the time. Im just glad they're finally getting back on track..

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by God is an Englishman »

I was on the understanding that once you had played in the cup for a team then that was your team irrespective of age groups and JSL/JPL.

So, if you played 15 JPL, then you cannot play for any other team. Not 14's, not 16's, not 15's JSL....
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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by Pie and Bovril »

God is an Englishman wrote:I was on the understanding that once you had played in the cup for a team then that was your team irrespective of age groups and JSL/JPL.

So, if you played 15 JPL, then you cannot play for any other team. Not 14's, not 16's, not 15's JSL....
you can play up but once you are up you can’t play down. For instance, if they get knocked out in U14 they can play U15.

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Re: Movement of players in the Junior Cup

Post by magnet »

God is an Englishman wrote:I was on the understanding that once you had played in the cup for a team then that was your team irrespective of age groups and JSL/JPL.

So, if you played 15 JPL, then you cannot play for any other team. Not 14's, not 16's, not 15's JSL....
14.1 below explains it.

14. Movement of Players

14.1 For all Junior Cup Competitions, players shall be permitted to move up an age group, but once the player has moved up to a higher age group they shall not be permitted to move back down to the lower age group. If a Club has two teams in the same age group, once a player has played for one team, they shall not be permitted to move to the other team in the same age group.

14.2 Providing that players meet the age eligibility criteria as set in Rule 3.1 of these Rules, players are permitted to participate in the Junior Cup Competition and the Senior Cup Competition without being Cup tied as prescribed in Rule 14.1.

14.3 Any goalkeeper who is age eligible shall be exempted from player movement rules provided that they play as a goalkeeper.

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