Get rid of JSL

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fball12
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Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.

geoff9559
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by geoff9559 »

Agree......definitely one league would be better

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by johnydep »

fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
Maybe follow the Brazilian method - junior games during parent working hours. Then we wouldn't here about the score or parents wanting to move their kids from club to club.

Would be interesting to see all the U13 scores from 1976. Wonder if all the games had goal differences of only a few goals?

Let the kids play.

Want to make some important changes? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53634 "winning is not important and the emphasis is on taking risks and playing attacking football"

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

johnydep wrote:
fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
Maybe follow the Brazilian method - junior games during parent working hours. Then we wouldn't here about the score or parents wanting to move their kids from club to club.

Would be interesting to see all the U13 scores from 1976. Wonder if all the games had goal differences of only a few goals?

Let the kids play.

Want to make some important changes? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53634 "winning is not important and the emphasis is on taking risks and playing attacking football"
Allowing 20-0 score lines every week is not letting the kids play!
Only one team plays with these score lines.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
It will never happen. JPL was setup to ensure each club has a chance to enter a "high level" junior team. What will happen is that clubs with small amount of Junior teams will sink without trace as players move to so called bigger club B and C teams.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Mrs Red »

fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
Totally agree - or at least it would be good if FFSA could at least review the current status quo

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
It will never happen. JPL was setup to ensure each club has a chance to enter a "high level" junior team. What will happen is that clubs with small amount of Junior teams will sink without trace as players move to so called bigger club B and C teams.
They could limit clubs to two teams only in each age group.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

fball12 wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:
fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
It will never happen. JPL was setup to ensure each club has a chance to enter a "high level" junior team. What will happen is that clubs with small amount of Junior teams will sink without trace as players move to so called bigger club B and C teams.
They could limit clubs to two teams only in each age group.
What about clubs that have big catchment areas such as Sturt and Cumberland. Both of those clubs have three teams at multiple age groups. Every kid should get the chance to play.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

They could limit clubs to two teams only in each age group.[/quote]What about clubs that have big catchment areas such as Sturt and Cumberland. Both of those clubs have three teams at multiple age groups. Every kid should get the chance to play.[/quote]

If there are 5 divisions (A, B, C, D, E) then make the limit 3 per club in the age group. None in the same division. If more divisions then allow more teams. The objective is to even up the competition as much as possible.

The lower age groups have more teams per club but the higher age groups have less.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Mrs Red »

Simply just have a rule that only one team per division from each club. If that team becomes top of their division they still cannot be promoted.

If clubs have lots of players in one age group then grade them accordingly. This is only usually a problem for age groups 12- 14. By under 15 the numbers start to reduce for a variety of reasons.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Mrs Red wrote:Simply just have a rule that only one team per division from each club. If that team becomes top of their division they still cannot be promoted.

If clubs have lots of players in one age group then grade them accordingly. This is only usually a problem for age groups 12- 14. By under 15 the numbers start to reduce for a variety of reasons.
Perfect solution.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Mr Red »

fball12 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:Simply just have a rule that only one team per division from each club. If that team becomes top of their division they still cannot be promoted.

If clubs have lots of players in one age group then grade them accordingly. This is only usually a problem for age groups 12- 14. By under 15 the numbers start to reduce for a variety of reasons.
Perfect solution.
Maybe Mrs Red could get a job working for the FFSA :?: :wink:

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by WAWAW »

After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by N5 1BH »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
fball12 wrote:The JSL structure has failed. Remove the JSL and create one junior league.

It creates too many problems:
- uneven competitions i.e. huge score lines and winning margins
- premier league clubs demanding their teams are in JPL to align with their seniors without merit e.g. Campbelltown
- parents and their kids all wanting to play JPL
- unfair evaluations of kids
- kids moving club to play JPL elsewhere

Create one Junior League with divisions (A, B, C, D, etc) and promote and relegate based on performance. Do not discriminate between clubs. Teams have to earn their right to stay in a division. No club has more than one team in a division.

Players will play where it is enjoyable and where they can develop. Do not allow the strong clubs to suck in all the good players to then thrash the rest of the competition.

Maybe then coaches will treat all kids fairly. Its supposed to be about the kids.
It will never happen. JPL was setup to ensure each club has a chance to enter a "high level" junior team. What will happen is that clubs with small amount of Junior teams will sink without trace as players move to so called bigger club B and C teams.
If JPL is an elite league then it should be primarily about quality but forcing the exact number of teams through daft legislation turns the standard of the league into a variable (often widely variable). On the other hand if you allow the number of teams to vary naturally, dependent on current resources per club you can set the standards & criteria required to enter a team in that league as the constant, basic quality control. Of course it’s completely illogical to believe you can actually have an elite program without first establishing a decent grassroots competition, otherwise elite compared to what?

JSL is an abomination get rid of it immediately. One league, Adelaide wide for top two or 3 divs, possibly zonal for lower divs, promotion from bottom to top for an equal pathway. Start the pyramid from the bottom up.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
The clubs don't care about JSL teams and to be honest they don't care about JPL either. The only kids they see with a future are the ones in the club advanced/elite squads.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Slide Tackle »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
The clubs don't care about JSL teams and to be honest they don't care about JPL either. The only kids they see with a future are the ones in the club advanced/elite squads.
Whats the club advanced elite squads?

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Slide Tackle wrote:
Pie and Bovril wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
The clubs don't care about JSL teams and to be honest they don't care about JPL either. The only kids they see with a future are the ones in the club advanced/elite squads.
Whats the club advanced elite squads?
A lot of clubs have advanced/elite squads which usually consist of players put forward to STIC. Its an additional nights training with a different coach.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
The clubs don't care about JSL teams and to be honest they don't care about JPL either. The only kids they see with a future are the ones in the club advanced/elite squads.
Not all clubs have advanced squads.

If you're also referring to FFSA Skilleroos/NTC, then I wouldn't be putting too much faith in those players. Some of them make it to the Seniors, not all of them.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by geoff9559 »

Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
that's the nail on the head there.........club's should be developing players, but they dont seem to be doing that and (in my opinion) reliant on the concept that at U18s they can get kids in from other clubs who dont require further developing. Sounds like a great concept and have seen kids who have been at a club for 8 years or so and not get picked for U18s....advised that they can go into U17s....the club has not addressed development issues and have let the child down. But this concept is flawed as yes club's can get in kids for U18s who are developed players but who is (or are) the clubs that are actually developing kids for future senior roles???? I think that is also why a drop off is seen around U15s as some of these kids are being pushed up into 18s to cover the shortage of developed players....perhaps. But the worrying issue is that coaches are (as stated by others) usually a parent who has a piece of paper saying that they can coach and might not have the experience themselves in playing to be able to assess and improve a player.....it is then down to the Junior Technical Director to be sorting the coaching development/strategy/future proofing of the club etc etc. Now not highjacking the thread but name a good Junior Technical Director who has a long term development plan and can be seen to be a long term prospect themselves at that club?? Not many out there and perhaps it is these clubs who are doing the development which other clubs benefit from. But hey I agree delete JSL and have a fair few divisions of JPL .....it would stop the artificial "divide" created in being either JPL (Premier) or JSL (Secondary) in the Juniors.....there is a stigma to it all and it's just not meant to be the case.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

geoff9559 wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
that's the nail on the head there.........club's should be developing players, but they dont seem to be doing that and (in my opinion) reliant on the concept that at U18s they can get kids in from other clubs who dont require further developing. Sounds like a great concept and have seen kids who have been at a club for 8 years or so and not get picked for U18s....advised that they can go into U17s....the club has not addressed development issues and have let the child down. But this concept is flawed as yes club's can get in kids for U18s who are developed players but who is (or are) the clubs that are actually developing kids for future senior roles???? I think that is also why a drop off is seen around U15s as some of these kids are being pushed up into 18s to cover the shortage of developed players....perhaps. But the worrying issue is that coaches are (as stated by others) usually a parent who has a piece of paper saying that they can coach and might not have the experience themselves in playing to be able to assess and improve a player.....it is then down to the Junior Technical Director to be sorting the coaching development/strategy/future proofing of the club etc etc. Now not highjacking the thread but name a good Junior Technical Director who has a long term development plan and can be seen to be a long term prospect themselves at that club?? Not many out there and perhaps it is these clubs who are doing the development which other clubs benefit from. But hey I agree delete JSL and have a fair few divisions of JPL .....it would stop the artificial "divide" created in being either JPL (Premier) or JSL (Secondary) in the Juniors.....there is a stigma to it all and it's just not meant to be the case.
There is not a lorry load of experienced coaches waiting to be plucked from obscurity to coach JSL teams. As you say, they usually end up with a parent who is willing to take a two day course or a young Reserve player who is often unreliable. There are plenty of clubs still looking for coaches in January/February.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Mr Red wrote:
fball12 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:Simply just have a rule that only one team per division from each club. If that team becomes top of their division they still cannot be promoted.

If clubs have lots of players in one age group then grade them accordingly. This is only usually a problem for age groups 12- 14. By under 15 the numbers start to reduce for a variety of reasons.
Perfect solution.
Maybe Mrs Red could get a job working for the FFSA :?: :wink:
Good idea.

Anyone from FFSA on this forum in disguise?

Mrs Red has good ideas on reforming the structure of the Junior League.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by WAWAW »

Pie and Bovril wrote:
geoff9559 wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
that's the nail on the head there.........club's should be developing players, but they dont seem to be doing that and (in my opinion) reliant on the concept that at U18s they can get kids in from other clubs who dont require further developing. Sounds like a great concept and have seen kids who have been at a club for 8 years or so and not get picked for U18s....advised that they can go into U17s....the club has not addressed development issues and have let the child down. But this concept is flawed as yes club's can get in kids for U18s who are developed players but who is (or are) the clubs that are actually developing kids for future senior roles???? I think that is also why a drop off is seen around U15s as some of these kids are being pushed up into 18s to cover the shortage of developed players....perhaps. But the worrying issue is that coaches are (as stated by others) usually a parent who has a piece of paper saying that they can coach and might not have the experience themselves in playing to be able to assess and improve a player.....it is then down to the Junior Technical Director to be sorting the coaching development/strategy/future proofing of the club etc etc. Now not highjacking the thread but name a good Junior Technical Director who has a long term development plan and can be seen to be a long term prospect themselves at that club?? Not many out there and perhaps it is these clubs who are doing the development which other clubs benefit from. But hey I agree delete JSL and have a fair few divisions of JPL .....it would stop the artificial "divide" created in being either JPL (Premier) or JSL (Secondary) in the Juniors.....there is a stigma to it all and it's just not meant to be the case.
There is not a lorry load of experienced coaches waiting to be plucked from obscurity to coach JSL teams. As you say, they usually end up with a parent who is willing to take a two day course or a young Reserve player who is often unreliable. There are plenty of clubs still looking for coaches in January/February.
At the end of the day it is hard to run and get quality coaches for these kids across the board. All junior coaches as far as I am aware are volunteers at the end of the day. The clubs should still look ATM if it's worth pulling together a team at all if there are no coaches or even enough players. My sons team only have 11 players at present which doesn't make things ideal..... especially if only 6 rock up to training. Again parents paying big money for this irrespective of volunteers or not.
As previously stated the kids miss out and it should be about their development and nothing else.
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Bomber »

Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
Most people agree that development is the most important issue.

The question is how one implements the development. Having teams get belted 20-0 each week does not make sense or contribute to proper development. Only one team touches the ball when getting belted 20-0. How is that development?

Evening up the competition is the solution through sensible grading of teams into one league with multiple divisions.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Bomber »

fball12 wrote:
Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
Most people agree that development is the most important issue.

The question is how one implements the development. Having teams get belted 20-0 each week does not make sense or contribute to proper development. Only one team touches the ball when getting belted 20-0. How is that development?

Evening up the competition is the solution through sensible grading of teams into one league with multiple divisions.
So how does one know how each team will fare before the season starts? Its not like the same teams rise along each year with each club, as such as that would be almost ideal.
Teams that are getting flogged, if they don't learn to persist, strive and train harder and get better, then who's fault is that?
Why as a society do we always have to mollycoddle the "weak" especially if they don't want to put in the hard yards?
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JBJBJB
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by JBJBJB »

geoff9559 wrote:
Forest T Hairy wrote:After witnessing a 13-0 and a 13-1 defeat in the first 2 games for my son. I am wondering what the clubs themselves are doing about it.
Is it that they create a second team to get the money in and make do with the coaches or whoever steps up to do it.

The FFSA between 14-17 is the game phase of development.... getting spanked by these scores does not develop anything or anyone.

The amount of money for these kids to play should expect a little more?
that's the nail on the head there.........club's should be developing players, but they dont seem to be doing that and (in my opinion) reliant on the concept that at U18s they can get kids in from other clubs who dont require further developing. Sounds like a great concept and have seen kids who have been at a club for 8 years or so and not get picked for U18s....advised that they can go into U17s....the club has not addressed development issues and have let the child down. But this concept is flawed as yes club's can get in kids for U18s who are developed players but who is (or are) the clubs that are actually developing kids for future senior roles???? I think that is also why a drop off is seen around U15s as some of these kids are being pushed up into 18s to cover the shortage of developed players....perhaps. But the worrying issue is that coaches are (as stated by others) usually a parent who has a piece of paper saying that they can coach and might not have the experience themselves in playing to be able to assess and improve a player.....it is then down to the Junior Technical Director to be sorting the coaching development/strategy/future proofing of the club etc etc. Now not highjacking the thread but name a good Junior Technical Director who has a long term development plan and can be seen to be a long term prospect themselves at that club?? Not many out there and perhaps it is these clubs who are doing the development which other clubs benefit from. But hey I agree delete JSL and have a fair few divisions of JPL .....it would stop the artificial "divide" created in being either JPL (Premier) or JSL (Secondary) in the Juniors.....there is a stigma to it all and it's just not meant to be the case.

+1
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
― Richard Fuller

Pie and Bovril
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Bomber wrote:
fball12 wrote:
Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
Most people agree that development is the most important issue.

The question is how one implements the development. Having teams get belted 20-0 each week does not make sense or contribute to proper development. Only one team touches the ball when getting belted 20-0. How is that development?

Evening up the competition is the solution through sensible grading of teams into one league with multiple divisions.
So how does one know how each team will fare before the season starts? Its not like the same teams rise along each year with each club, as such as that would be almost ideal.
Teams that are getting flogged, if they don't learn to persist, strive and train harder and get better, then who's fault is that?
Why as a society do we always have to mollycoddle the "weak" especially if they don't want to put in the hard yards?
Clubs need to play their part. If they think they will struggle they should let the FFSA know and get them into the JSL. Before anyone says that they must have a JPL team before they can have JSL team then I refer you to Cove U14’s. Going by the FFSA guidelines they should be in the JPL. However, common sense has prevailed and they have been allocated to the JSL league. I can’t say its doing them too many favours because they’ve conceded 45 goals in three games.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by WAWAW »

Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
If a team is losing 13-0 every week then that is no good for anyone. I agree that they need to train and work hard but if the re is no direction or coaching they won't improve or work on things that need correcting.
It's not about the score it's about the development..... if they improved and were getting coached then it wouldn't be as bad but when there is neither?? It's sole destroying for the kids and that's why they don't continue to play the game and that's why it is miles behind the rest of the world.
#mylipsaresealed

fball12
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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by fball12 »

Bomber wrote:
fball12 wrote:
Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
Most people agree that development is the most important issue.

The question is how one implements the development. Having teams get belted 20-0 each week does not make sense or contribute to proper development. Only one team touches the ball when getting belted 20-0. How is that development?

Evening up the competition is the solution through sensible grading of teams into one league with multiple divisions.
So how does one know how each team will fare before the season starts? Its not like the same teams rise along each year with each club, as such as that would be almost ideal.
Teams that are getting flogged, if they don't learn to persist, strive and train harder and get better, then who's fault is that?
Why as a society do we always have to mollycoddle the "weak" especially if they don't want to put in the hard yards?
If FFSA look at the Cup results (U12, 13, 14, 15, 16) each year they will know quite clearly how good or bad teams are. They can use this data to grade teams as well as their league results. If teams radically change at end of season the clubs themselves should let FFSA if they are going to be weaker and drop themselves down a division e.g. The Cove U14 JPL A from last season dropped themselves into U15 JPL B this season.

Its not about mollycoddling. Its about sensible and reasonable competition each week.

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Re: Get rid of JSL

Post by geoff9559 »

Bomber wrote:Why on the one hand is it development the most important thing, yet on the other hand people moaning about blow-out scores?

This has been happening since the dawn of the game and the critical point that many seem to miss is that part of development is knowing how to accept a heavy defeat, learn from it and improve.

When young, I think it was U/12's, I was a player on the end of a 13-0 beating at Birkalla. Not much fun but was in awe how they moved the ball about etc etc. We trained harder and harder and next time we played them, we lost 4-3 and even their players, coach etc remarked how well we improved and that they had their full side etc. We treated the loss almost as though we had won, and I even put my hand up for missing a sitter in the dying stages to make it 4-4, but no-one arked up and we got simply got better and better, so much that the following season, apart from maybe 3 players, otherwise the same side ended up winning the league and cup double, with only one loss in the season. From memory at least 5 players went on to play regular senior football at the club, and at least one played NSL.

The point being, is you can give up, point fingers, blame all and sundry if and when you are getting pumped, but true character is all about how you rise, overcome and learn.
Bomber.....love your reply but from what you are saying is that you got beaten by a team and used that to push yourself and your team to better results. Or are you saying that as a kid your team was beaten but through your determination and that of your teammates AND the work that your coach put in towards improving the team worked. As i stated we have parents who are coaches with the possibility of no real playing experience... training check great but strategically and tactically arent up to speed in a match. So if a coach has no idea how or what to train the kids on then they will not improve significantly. If you have a good coach with good training ideas plus a group of kids who are determined then you could improve. But if a club doesn't provide said experienced coach then they wont improve and eventually this will end up as compounding and them not being good for seniors....they dont possess the right building blocks or have acquired game skills. Cheers geoff9559

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