30 man squad - what age level should this be implemented?

[jimmy2014]

A great shame for the uninitiated reading this tripe.
30 man squad is code for sucking your money and interest when your child could be playing in a first team elsewhere, because the current u12/13/14 team is full of dadies boys, committee members kids, racially appropriate persons, and then others that they will allow.
I'll never forget Boy George thanking AC every Sunday for letting Coop go. It was hilarious.
ALL TEAMS have positions up for grabs, dependent on lineage, breeding, cultural heritage, bonus from the govt, etc.
But that is sport!

[geoff9559]

I don't see what the issue is. Clubs with two teams already have 30 man squads anyway. If the coaches of the club can't communicate then the buck stops with them.

Yes there are 30 man squads - made up of 15 JPL and 15 JSL players in Under 12 to Under 16's at a number of clubs, but probably not all. There are U17s and U18s at a number of clubs which add up to approx. 30 players as well.

The problem is these teams have completely separate coaches (assistant coaches, team managers) with differing agendas and will not change their teams for purely selfish reasons and not to upset kids and their parents.

No movement occurs and never has! All the promises are not delivered and development policies are not implemented.

A (JPL) coaches do not want to change their teams to not upset kids and their parents.
B (JSL) coaches do not want to lose their best players and will not let them go. They will undermine any player who wants to move up.

The Technical Directors (or age group Coordinators) do not watch any games and if they do they're not watching very closely at all, having a chit chat, discussions on the side. They are influenced or fed false information by the A and B coaches and nothing changes. Players get disillusioned and change clubs or quit forever.

What a garbage, pathetic system FFSA has devised.

The Technical Directors (or age group Coordinators) do not do their jobs at all!
The team Coaches and Technical Directors can communicate, they just won't or not communicate any valid player information!

Agree on the above and now am putting my head on a block here I reckon.........
Ok so my partner has had a few discussions with the TD at our current club in JUne, she was advised that things would change and that both the JPL and JSL squads would be training together - which is what they advised at the beginning of trials and at start of pre-season. Didnt happen....again. Told that there would be a rotation of a JSL player into train with JPL players....only happened to one child all others not given an opportunity and yet many are significantly better than the players in the JPL squad. So quite appalled that we were advised to try the club last year - it looked good, my son played against them in 2015 in the JPL and did a good job as a defender......and this is where I put my head on the block as I'm trumpeting my kid which isnt what I would like to do but adds to the dimension of how wrong some stuff is. Ok so he made the SAPSASA soccer team for his region as a Centreback, the COach is a brilliant coach who used to play for an English side which is in the EPL a fair while ago - we were impressed with him and how he developed the players very quickly into a team....ok significantly better than the current crop of coaches I've seen and a few people I've met around the traps have all said did you have 'X' as the coach? isnt he brilliant. Ok so during the 10 matches in SAPSASA they didnt bring my son off as he was doing a good job and the Coach is saying 'why is he playing JSL as he's fantastic???! they need to see him play!!!"....those were the words and they made me very proud as when he trialed for STIC or SAP whilst doing well was always pipped by a midfielder or a 'known' kid. He's now been working with Drago for this year to further develop his skills as a defender and was going to Serbia for 3 and half weeks to train with a Superliga club.....instead at 13 years of age he ended up training with the Serbian National Team U18s (at their training center) and in his second week had the National U16s coach as his one on one coach, then finally trained with the Superliga club for the last week and their defensive coach. He got a great wrap up about his skills......he came back so fit and significantly improved over what he already was it was just amazing.......and still doesnt even get a look in at JPL on his return who really do need a good backline player!!! So it's not what skills and abilities you possess it does seem that it's the usual in Adelaide and all about who you know and there are stories around about this kid gets in based on who the parents are plus the Coach wanting to preserve their team that they've had for awhile as per fball12's comments.
So here we have a very small number of coaches who select a player based on their physical ability and skills in soccer for a specific position (as seen in SAPSASA) - few and far between it seems, then we have clubs who have a decided 'A' Team in the Juniors and accept a pile of others to bolster coffers who (for a few) have been asked to come over, promised a lot with nothing happening. Yep a tad jaded and the number of people I have had conversations with over the last month or so ....there seems to be a lot who are not happy with the clubs they are at and how the junior squads are treated. I guess if it wasnt for a club having juniors then the club (until recently) could not have played seniors in teh FFSA.....now we have SL2 where a club can just have senior teams and no juniors...but if they promote they will need junior teams (3 in JPL and 2 in miniroos) to meet the criteria of SL1 or to field a junior team in all age groups to meet the NPL criteria for a club. Club management in NPL and SL1 are seeming to overlook this point that without juniors they cant really exist and would have to go to SL2 or prior to this season stopped trading as a club. Now I've just been seeing clubs advertise that for trials for the 2017 season there is either a 50% deposit required or $300 non-refundable deposit required to 'secure' a position........I guess the 30 person squad is really here to stay as clubs will be trying to get numbers secured before Christmas through all sorts of promises which they can then back out if they wish as they have you over a barrel as you are locked in with them unless you are happy to walk away from the non-refundable deposit. It's locking in money to then use to entice senior players to come over to the club I am guessing - but that's me being a bit negative on how clubs are functioning right now.
Going by how the family feels about the current club it has been a good experience and learner for us......he has developed more under his own steam and with external support more than from the club and has become a very good defender (from what everyone has said).....now he wants to find a club and coach that are true to their word....I reckon he doesnt want to stay at this club as they have led him down the path and it doesnt look like they will change.....should have seen this just by the website and it's lack of any real mention of juniors let alone the emails and FB posts which again omit any mention of how the juniors are going.
So most probably telling people how to suck eggs but reckon that if a club doesnt really post much about how their juniors are going or doesnt have much about their junior's development or really much more than posting a team list and perhaps a team photo then perhaps they arent interested in developing juniors for their own future senior teams......and will just buy in what they require for senior teams at the expense of kids who might have been at the club for numerous years - not developed and then discarded around U16s as they arent good enough - the club has let this child down by not offering appropriate development. I am shooting my 'preserved' junior JPL theory a bit here but see only a handful getting the nod to go to seniors and the rest being led along like the JSL 'cattle'.
So yeah am pretty unimpressed of late, I'm putting how I feel out there however believe it is something that is happening regularly and is not being addressed by either CLubs nor the FFSA as they really are stuck with the model that they have and cannot break this cycle - and the model is hurting the game regardless of the reported numbers of families now taking up soccer in South Australia. And whilst I have singled out my son as being a good player in his squad virtually all bar one in this JSL team are very good players and could easily walk into another club's JPL squad and be a starting 11 - there is some serious talent just overlooked ........and not developed or nutured to feel like they want to stay as there's seemingly no future for them as they cant break into a JPL team as its a closed shop which they werent advised of prior to signing up.........
Cheers
Geoff9559

[Pie and Bovril]

I don't see what the issue is. Clubs with two teams already have 30 man squads anyway. If the coaches of the club can't communicate then the buck stops with them.

Yes there are 30 man squads - made up of 15 JPL and 15 JSL players in Under 12 to Under 16's at a number of clubs, but probably not all. There are U17s and U18s at a number of clubs which add up to approx. 30 players as well.

The problem is these teams have completely separate coaches (assistant coaches, team managers) with differing agendas and will not change their teams for purely selfish reasons and not to upset kids and their parents.

No movement occurs and never has! All the promises are not delivered and development policies are not implemented.

A (JPL) coaches do not want to change their teams to not upset kids and their parents.
B (JSL) coaches do not want to lose their best players and will not let them go. They will undermine any player who wants to move up.

The Technical Directors (or age group Coordinators) do not watch any games and if they do they're not watching very closely at all, having a chit chat, discussions on the side. They are influenced or fed false information by the A and B coaches and nothing changes. Players get disillusioned and change clubs or quit forever.

What a garbage, pathetic system FFSA has devised.

The Technical Directors (or age group Coordinators) do not do their jobs at all!
The team Coaches and Technical Directors can communicate, they just won't or not communicate any valid player information!

Agree on the above and now am putting my head on a block here I reckon.........
Ok so my partner has had a few discussions with the TD at our current club in JUne, she was advised that things would change and that both the JPL and JSL squads would be training together - which is what they advised at the beginning of trials and at start of pre-season. Didnt happen....again. Told that there would be a rotation of a JSL player into train with JPL players....only happened to one child all others not given an opportunity and yet many are significantly better than the players in the JPL squad. So quite appalled that we were advised to try the club last year - it looked good, my son played against them in 2015 in the JPL and did a good job as a defender......and this is where I put my head on the block as I'm trumpeting my kid which isnt what I would like to do but adds to the dimension of how wrong some stuff is. Ok so he made the SAPSASA soccer team for his region as a Centreback, the COach is a brilliant coach who used to play for an English side which is in the EPL a fair while ago - we were impressed with him and how he developed the players very quickly into a team....ok significantly better than the current crop of coaches I've seen and a few people I've met around the traps have all said did you have 'X' as the coach? isnt he brilliant. Ok so during the 10 matches in SAPSASA they didnt bring my son off as he was doing a good job and the Coach is saying 'why is he playing JSL as he's fantastic???! they need to see him play!!!"....those were the words and they made me very proud as when he trialed for STIC or SAP whilst doing well was always pipped by a midfielder or a 'known' kid. He's now been working with Drago for this year to further develop his skills as a defender and was going to Serbia for 3 and half weeks to train with a Superliga club.....instead at 13 years of age he ended up training with the Serbian National Team U18s (at their training center) and in his second week had the National U16s coach as his one on one coach, then finally trained with the Superliga club for the last week and their defensive coach. He got a great wrap up about his skills......he came back so fit and significantly improved over what he already was it was just amazing.......and still doesnt even get a look in at JPL on his return who really do need a good backline player!!! So it's not what skills and abilities you possess it does seem that it's the usual in Adelaide and all about who you know and there are stories around about this kid gets in based on who the parents are plus the Coach wanting to preserve their team that they've had for awhile as per fball12's comments.
So here we have a very small number of coaches who select a player based on their physical ability and skills in soccer for a specific position (as seen in SAPSASA) - few and far between it seems, then we have clubs who have a decided 'A' Team in the Juniors and accept a pile of others to bolster coffers who (for a few) have been asked to come over, promised a lot with nothing happening. Yep a tad jaded and the number of people I have had conversations with over the last month or so ....there seems to be a lot who are not happy with the clubs they are at and how the junior squads are treated. I guess if it wasnt for a club having juniors then the club (until recently) could not have played seniors in teh FFSA.....now we have SL2 where a club can just have senior teams and no juniors...but if they promote they will need junior teams (3 in JPL and 2 in miniroos) to meet the criteria of SL1 or to field a junior team in all age groups to meet the NPL criteria for a club. Club management in NPL and SL1 are seeming to overlook this point that without juniors they cant really exist and would have to go to SL2 or prior to this season stopped trading as a club. Now I've just been seeing clubs advertise that for trials for the 2017 season there is either a 50% deposit required or $300 non-refundable deposit required to 'secure' a position........I guess the 30 person squad is really here to stay as clubs will be trying to get numbers secured before Christmas through all sorts of promises which they can then back out if they wish as they have you over a barrel as you are locked in with them unless you are happy to walk away from the non-refundable deposit. It's locking in money to then use to entice senior players to come over to the club I am guessing - but that's me being a bit negative on how clubs are functioning right now.
Going by how the family feels about the current club it has been a good experience and learner for us......he has developed more under his own steam and with external support more than from the club and has become a very good defender (from what everyone has said).....now he wants to find a club and coach that are true to their word....I reckon he doesnt want to stay at this club as they have led him down the path and it doesnt look like they will change.....should have seen this just by the website and it's lack of any real mention of juniors let alone the emails and FB posts which again omit any mention of how the juniors are going.
So most probably telling people how to suck eggs but reckon that if a club doesnt really post much about how their juniors are going or doesnt have much about their junior's development or really much more than posting a team list and perhaps a team photo then perhaps they arent interested in developing juniors for their own future senior teams......and will just buy in what they require for senior teams at the expense of kids who might have been at the club for numerous years - not developed and then discarded around U16s as they arent good enough - the club has let this child down by not offering appropriate development. I am shooting my 'preserved' junior JPL theory a bit here but see only a handful getting the nod to go to seniors and the rest being led along like the JSL 'cattle'.
So yeah am pretty unimpressed of late, I'm putting how I feel out there however believe it is something that is happening regularly and is not being addressed by either CLubs nor the FFSA as they really are stuck with the model that they have and cannot break this cycle - and the model is hurting the game regardless of the reported numbers of families now taking up soccer in South Australia. And whilst I have singled out my son as being a good player in his squad virtually all bar one in this JSL team are very good players and could easily walk into another club's JPL squad and be a starting 11 - there is some serious talent just overlooked ........and not developed or nutured to feel like they want to stay as there's seemingly no future for them as they cant break into a JPL team as its a closed shop which they werent advised of prior to signing up.........
Cheers
Geoff9559

How can the FFSA help? There will always be a first team and reserves. Calling them JPL and JSL is no different, still first and reserves.

Every parent rates their own children highly. We had a guy pleading with us to trial his Son as he missed the trials. According to him he was tall, fast, skillful,great passer and reader of the game. Well he wasn't any of those things. His Dad was saying the same thing as you. He felt he was being overlooked in the JSL. He didn't make either of our teams. The child had been moved from club to club for the past three years.

Is your Son happy where he is?

[geoff9559]

No he's not happy as the coaching is poor in the jsl whereas a good coach is in the jpl plus hes just had first hand some very gòod coaching experiences at a national level. Example being that against the top team who have very good players the best midfielder was on the bench for half the game (he's actually the best in the squad), my son was told he had a full game and then taken off to make three on the backline which opened up gaps which the opposition scored 4 and then put him back on but it was too late. My biggest issue is that we want a coach who is not me!!!! I have several coaching stints and have worked with five different olympic coaches from several countries in various sports plus stints with performance sports and consulted for sporting groups to improve them - i have a platform of not wanting to coach my children as i want to be seen as unbiased and neutral. I do assist a few ressies players in preparing and training plus have a network of contacts for devising programs for their training. I can see where you are coming from and have recently met a family who cant get their sin a birth in adelaide and yet when i sa w his skill cant work out why he's not snapped up by a club.....if he was in the UK he'd have a place easily in a squad. With our son he is good but is not a midfielder which seems to be the flavour of clubs in adelaide. The ffsa can fix the model by improving the quality of coaching and modifying the curriculum delivered as it is an interpretation of the ffa manual. Will see what happens. Cheers geoff9559

[geoff9559]

Sorry forgot to say he has been in jpl for three years at least prior to this season and whilst playing his age group was also playing for jpl teams two years older. He was asked to come to the new club as they saw him play but then the selectors werent the people who saw him play and the club didnt do what they said they were going to do. Cheers

[r2d2]

Luckily my phone has the speak function because i couldn't be bothered reading all of it. My boys overheard and laughed and sighted similar incidents with them. This will continue until a fully independent coaching group is appointed. Of course the FFSA will fund this and all children will be happy and develop equally. Parents are never happy though.

[geoff9559]

R2......will try to cut my soapboxes down......

Cheers geoff9559

[r2d2]

Keep up the good work mate. Hopefully people that can make changes get the hint. it seems your son isn't happy and that's really why the kids play. I would say name and shame but that's for another time when your son moves on proves them wrong. Is the coaches son striker or a number 10. That seems to be most coaches preferred position for their kids. I have seen some former coaches that can't look some kids in the eye once they move on. Where are their kids now??
Focus from football moves on to girls and/or school work as they get older. Its great when they keep the sport up unlike me.

[geoff9559]

You must be psychic!!!!! And the move to three on the backline was to keep forwards on.....to the detriment of the backline.....nepotism and cronyism is something that seems part in parcel with some sports. Proactive and neutral coordinators would assist in moving the sport forward i would hope. Cheers geoff9559

[God is an Englishman]

Most of what I am reading here makes me laugh. In terms of coaching, can only speak from my own child's experience. He loves his football, he loves playing and training and has a lot of respect for his coach. The coach doesn't have a child in the side and whilst on occasions I disagree with his tactics and/or team selection - he's the coach and it's his call.

Surely no coach is going to turn away a good player or not play him in his best position for the side. Sorry, but my first reaction on this is that maybe you're son isn't as good as you think he is. Some people seem to think this is the premier league, maybe start by accepting that it's not and if you think your son is that good that he's going to play there, he's probably not going to make it from some little suburban adelaide club.

[geoff9559]

GIAE ....i can send you the video of the coaching decisions in some matches if you wish. As to my son's abilities....well i reckon he's good, others believe he's bloody good....last year selected as the best centreback in the whole club and awarded the club medal....for 12yo boy i was very stoked for him. Him being invited to serbia....the people who offered for him to go thought he was at least 15yo and when we advised them of his age they still said he could go but would only be assessed on the physical and not the pysch....hmmm maybe i am dreaming but considering that others think higher of him in his abilities than me....its worth considering..his neep test over 20 metres was 12.4 which is elite level... but i have said to him that i will support him 110% as long as he is happy and is enjoying his sport. What i am concerned about is that the 30 person squad is being wrongly applied in some clubs to the detriment of players and families. Cheers geoff9559

[themessenger]

GIAE ....i can send you the video of the coaching decisions in some matches if you wish. As to my son's abilities....well i reckon he's good, others believe he's bloody good....last year selected as the best centreback in the whole club and awarded the club medal....for 12yo boy i was very stoked for him. Him being invited to serbia....the people who offered for him to go thought he was at least 15yo and when we advised them of his age they still said he could go but would only be assessed on the physical and not the pysch....hmmm maybe i am dreaming but considering that others think higher of him in his abilities than me....its worth considering..his neep test over 20 metres was 12.4 which is elite level... but i have said to him that i will support him 110% as long as he is happy and is enjoying his sport. What i am concerned about is that the 30 person squad is being wrongly applied in some clubs to the detriment of players and families. Cheers geoff9559

You have had a lot to say about the negatives of the 30 person squad, and your sons footballing abilities seemingly overlooked at his current club, but still you choose for him to continue playing there. Why is that?

He is only 12 years old and if he is as good as you say he is, will only get better as he gets older. Don't worry about his beep test results or comparing him to 15 year olds...etc. Seriously, what's the rush?

Can sense the passion (and frustration) in you, but perhaps step back a little and recognise he is a kid. Just let him play football.

[Pie and Bovril]

No he's not happy as the coaching is poor in the jsl whereas a good coach is in the jpl plus hes just had first hand some very gòod coaching experiences at a national level. Example being that against the top team who have very good players the best midfielder was on the bench for half the game (he's actually the best in the squad), my son was told he had a full game and then taken off to make three on the backline which opened up gaps which the opposition scored 4 and then put him back on but it was too late. My biggest issue is that we want a coach who is not me!!!! I have several coaching stints and have worked with five different olympic coaches from several countries in various sports plus stints with performance sports and consulted for sporting groups to improve them - i have a platform of not wanting to coach my children as i want to be seen as unbiased and neutral. I do assist a few ressies players in preparing and training plus have a network of contacts for devising programs for their training. I can see where you are coming from and have recently met a family who cant get their sin a birth in adelaide and yet when i sa w his skill cant work out why he's not snapped up by a club.....if he was in the UK he'd have a place easily in a squad. With our son he is good but is not a midfielder which seems to be the flavour of clubs in adelaide. The ffsa can fix the model by improving the quality of coaching and modifying the curriculum delivered as it is an interpretation of the ffa manual. Will see what happens. Cheers geoff9559

It's easy to slag off a parent who coaches. Selecting his own child is not the reason your Son is not playing. It seems to be the go to excuse. If he is as good as you say he is then every coach in the state would have him in their team. How many clubs have you been to in the last few years?

[geoff9559]

Messenger ....we stayed at the club in question as by the time we found that what had been stated for the 30 players the season was about to start...he still thought he had a chance to be seen and the club had all the fees....some might be able to walk away from 800 plus dollars. ..others not so. Secondly most teams that we were aware of had their full quota in the age group ao moving hasnt been an option. Cheers geoff9559

[geoff9559]

P&B....he was approached by four clubs.....two being premier league and he went to one of those. My partner was being rung in january as to him joining other clubs but we'd paid the money so she said no. Last weekend we had a junior coaching director from another club approach us with regards building a new squad under a new coach for 2017.......it sounds great however talking to a few people i am a tad reserved as i personaĺly do not know much about the club and from conversations there are mixed reviews. The club we left after three years have said that there is always a spot for good centreback. The reason for leaving are mixed and varied but mainly it was for the lad to learn under a different coach and gain more skills which hasnt under the jsl coach but would have under the jpl coach. Cheers geoff9559

[themessenger]

Messenger ....we stayed at the club in question as by the time we found that what had been stated for the 30 players the season was about to start...he still thought he had a chance to be seen and the club had all the fees....some might be able to walk away from 800 plus dollars. ..others not so. Secondly most teams that we were aware of had their full quota in the age group ao moving hasnt been an option. Cheers geoff9559

Whichever club your son is at has not worked out for him this year. Good luck in finding a new club for next season. Do your homework and ask around. Dont be deceived by the supposed reputation of some clubs as you often get fed empty promises.
The ability of the coach is more important than the name of a club.

[geoff9559]

Definitely doing research. I guess the main thing here is that we have been in a 30 person squad at a lower age and it hasnt worked as the club has not followed through. If a club implements this model then they need to work towards 100% happy families yes i know thats not possible but they have to aim at more than just 50% being happy in the squad. Cheers geoff9559

[Laces thru the ball]

This is a timely reminder as we come to the end of the season and trials are just around the corner.
If the club you are currently at or the new club your child is trialling at mentions they are implementing the “30 Man Squad System” then I encourage you to have a really good think of all the possible implications this will have on your childs love for the game, their football development and their mental health.
What I mean by “30 Man Squad System” is that the club selects the top 30 players at the end of the trial period (September 2016) but DOES NOT announce the JPL and JSL squads until a few weeks before the season starts proper (March 2017). After the JPL and JSL teams are announced the two teams separate with their own coaches and separate training sessions.
In my opinion the “30 Man Squad System” DOES NOT WORK and only benefits the Club.
Effectively, the Club locks in 30 players but only 15 players make the JPL squad so undoubtedly there will be some good players placed in the JSL squad who could have easily walked into another JPL team at another Club.
The Club will promise player transitions between the JPL and JSL teams but this will seldom happen. Don’t forget the coaches have had approximately 5 months to have a good look at all the players as weekly training sessions/trials continue through the off season.
When player changes between the teams do happen (mid season) how would your child feel being dropped from the JPL to the JSL team after establishing friendships in the JPL team? Not to mention the huge backward step in football quality and the associated embarrassment. This is CRUSHING for juniors and may be enough for them to quit before their balls have even dropped.
If your child is not in the top 8 (or so) players in the “30 Man Squad” they WILL be impacted.