Cup round.....

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matty2323
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

Nova wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
matty2323 wrote:Football in general would be much stronger if it wasn't divided down the middle with the two associations. But unfortunately that's the landscape of football in this state.
Same at the senior level, I really don't see how it would make any difference at all. I have a son who plays for a Federation side, I play for an Amateur side. Some clubs (including your own) have a side in both amateur and federation.

I see football like life: sometimes you win 20-0 sometimes you don't get the job because there's someone better. You come back better and stronger and get the next one. I worry that protecting kids from things like this will mean a weaker generation who are not used to winners and losers.

I understand that at youth level, results are less important compared to development but sport needs to teach our kids that there are winners and losers in life.
Well said!
100% agree. my problem isnt with kids wanting to win or lose. they need that. kids who dont have a winning mentality will fail to succeed in sport.

People have misinterpreted the "winning vs development" argument. It is meant to be aimed at the coaches, not the players. Kids should want to win. They should be rewarded for winning. But as coaches, its our responsibility to ensure development takes place and provide environments where players are given opportunities to succeed. If i pick a squad of 16, i want all 16 players to succeed. If, in a tight game, i tell my "weaker" players they won't be getting as much game time, then the issue now becomes a coach making decisions to win at a kids sport. Coaches placing winning over development.

Its not about kids winning or losing, its about coaches wanting to win at kids sports. Coaches making decisions to ensure the team wins by sacrificing the development of certain players in the environment. That's the "winning vs development" environment. 2 seasons ago my U13 team were in a cup semi final vs AC, and we had equal game policy for the whole season. I continued it in this game and we ended up losing 6-2. The players were disappointed. But at the end of the game i gathered them up and pointed out an AC player who was walking off with his parents while majority of this team mates were celebrating. Why? The young lad had sat on the bench for the whole game and was given 5 minutes at the end when the score became 5-2. You think winning meant anything to that kid on that night?

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Nova »

All valid points matty, but on the flip side regarding the AC player getting 5 minutes in that game.
I know a player from my club in his junior years that always got minimal time compared to other players, was kinda soft and not as strong as his team mates, ended up playing some first team games at Campbelltown!
Some hard lessons early in life can bring out the best in someone with belief and fight :wink:

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by zackadacka »

geoff9559 wrote: I reckon that's a pretty good indication that JSL teams are not really holding their own against JPL teams and that perhaps the FFSA should look at the first round being JSL and JPL C teams.
Really?

A fair proportion of the blow-out (10+) scorelines are JSL-JSL or JPL-JPL games... In Under 12, only 4 of the big margins were JPL v JSL, whilst 5 were all-JSL, not to mention the all-JPL blow-outs. In Under 13, Under 14 & Under 15 the biggest winning scores were registered by JSL teams.

Clearly limiting it to those teams playing each other doesn't solve the issue of massive blowouts. It is a false solution to a problem that is inevitable, players at young ages develop at vastly different rates. The Cup gives teams playing in lower leagues a chance to experience the quality of teams from higher divisions, and can be a valuable learning tool for those players, if used by the coach in the right way.

Clubs also seem to be complicit in the big scorelines, on the evidence of Fulham's effort in the Under 12's... A quick glance at the team sheets shows that they switched their JPL and JSL teams for the cup (Their JPL players played for their JSL team against Modbury Vista [JSL] and their JSL players played for the JPL team against Para Hills Knights [JPL]). Fortunately for the integrity of the competition (and unfortunately for Fulham's players), this resulted in 13-0 & 22-0 losses. There may have to be rule changes to prevent this sort of thing occurring, as it can't be good for the JSL kids that are thrown into the deep end by their own club.
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by magnet »

zackadacka wrote:
geoff9559 wrote: I reckon that's a pretty good indication that JSL teams are not really holding their own against JPL teams and that perhaps the FFSA should look at the first round being JSL and JPL C teams.
Really?

A fair proportion of the blow-out (10+) scorelines are JSL-JSL or JPL-JPL games... In Under 12, only 4 of the big margins were JPL v JSL, whilst 5 were all-JSL, not to mention the all-JPL blow-outs. In Under 13 and Under 14 the biggest winning scores were registered by JSL teams.

Clearly limiting it to those teams playing each other doesn't solve the issue of massive blowouts. It is a false solution to a problem that is inevitable, players at young ages develop at vastly different rates. The Cup gives teams playing in lower leagues a chance to experience the quality of teams from higher divisions, and can be a valuable learning tool for those players, if used by the coach in the right way.

Clubs also seem to be complicit in the big scorelines, on the evidence of Fulham's effort in the Under 12's... A quick glance at the team sheets shows that they switched their JPL and JSL teams for the cup (Their JPL players played for their JSL team against Modbury Vista [JSL] and their JSL players played for the JPL team against Para Hills Knights [JPL]). Fortunately for the integrity of the competition (and unfortunately for Fulham's players), this resulted in 13-0 & 22-0 losses. There may have to be rule changes to prevent this sort of thing occurring, as it can't be good for the JSL kids that are thrown into the deep end by their own club.
Fulham, nice try :lol:

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

Nova wrote:All valid points matty, but on the flip side regarding the AC player getting 5 minutes in that game.
I know a player from my club in his junior years that always got minimal time compared to other players, was kinda soft and not as strong as his team mates, ended up playing some first team games at Campbelltown!
Some hard lessons early in life can bring out the best in someone with belief and fight :wink:

Not saying it's right or wrong, but champs find a way of becoming champs
Doesn't surprise me at all. You'll probably find the kid was technically better than everyone else, but because he lacked physical assets, wasn't given a chance. If 99% of the Spanish national team (Xavi, Iniesta etc) were born in Australia they would have sat on the behind behind players like Andy Carroll and Theo Walcott because, as you said, they would have been "kinda soft and not as strong as his team mates"... The kid probably didnt develop belief and fight, he would have simply just grew up. And when his physical development finally caught up with his technique, he was a much better player than all his team mates.

Im not saying things should be given to kids on a platter. Quite the opposite. Need to work hard and commit. But if a "smaller/less advanced" kid is giving you 100% in training, has complete dedication to the sport and is 12 years old with several years of potential development ahead of him.. then giving him minimal game time because he lacks the physical assets of other players or might not be in the top 5 players in the team, is a coach choosing to win over development...

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by magnet »

matty2323 wrote:
Nova wrote:All valid points matty, but on the flip side regarding the AC player getting 5 minutes in that game.
I know a player from my club in his junior years that always got minimal time compared to other players, was kinda soft and not as strong as his team mates, ended up playing some first team games at Campbelltown!
Some hard lessons early in life can bring out the best in someone with belief and fight :wink:

Not saying it's right or wrong, but champs find a way of becoming champs
Doesn't surprise me at all. You'll probably find the kid was technically better than everyone else, but because he lacked physical assets, wasn't given a chance. If 99% of the Spanish national team (Xavi, Iniesta etc) were born in Australia they would have sat on the behind behind players like Andy Carroll and Theo Walcott because, as you said, they would have been "kinda soft and not as strong as his team mates"... The kid probably didnt develop belief and fight, he would have simply just grew up. And when his physical development finally caught up with his technique, he was a much better player than all his team mates.

Im not saying things should be given to kids on a platter. Quite the opposite. Need to work hard and commit. But if a "smaller/less advanced" kid is giving you 100% in training, has complete dedication to the sport and is 12 years old with several years of potential development ahead of him.. then giving him minimal game time because he lacks the physical assets of other players or might not be in the top 5 players in the team, is a coach choosing to win over development...
Walcott is a strange player to use as an example of strength but I get your point

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

magnet wrote: Walcott is a strange player to use as an example of strength but I get your point
I was making reference to physical assets: Andy Carroll = size and strength. Theo = speed.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by geoff9559 »

zackadacka wrote:
geoff9559 wrote: I reckon that's a pretty good indication that JSL teams are not really holding their own against JPL teams and that perhaps the FFSA should look at the first round being JSL and JPL C teams.
Really?

A fair proportion of the blow-out (10+) scorelines are JSL-JSL or JPL-JPL games... In Under 12, only 4 of the big margins were JPL v JSL, whilst 5 were all-JSL, not to mention the all-JPL blow-outs. In Under 13, Under 14 & Under 15 the biggest winning scores were registered by JSL teams.

Clearly limiting it to those teams playing each other doesn't solve the issue of massive blowouts. It is a false solution to a problem that is inevitable, players at young ages develop at vastly different rates. The Cup gives teams playing in lower leagues a chance to experience the quality of teams from higher divisions, and can be a valuable learning tool for those players, if used by the coach in the right way.

Clubs also seem to be complicit in the big scorelines, on the evidence of Fulham's effort in the Under 12's... A quick glance at the team sheets shows that they switched their JPL and JSL teams for the cup (Their JPL players played for their JSL team against Modbury Vista [JSL] and their JSL players played for the JPL team against Para Hills Knights [JPL]). Fortunately for the integrity of the competition (and unfortunately for Fulham's players), this resulted in 13-0 & 22-0 losses. There may have to be rule changes to prevent this sort of thing occurring, as it can't be good for the JSL kids that are thrown into the deep end by their own club.
Ok so to get to 'experience' quality....it still has to be around ......and when you have JPL teams knocking off other JPL teams then the lower groups dont really get to experience it. An example is Metro knocking off Birkalla in the U12s, in the U13s this wasnt the case but did have JPL A pools meeting JSL, more apparent in the U14s with JPL teams knocking each other off and therefore JSL teams dont get to meet them - ie Pool A JPL playing Pool C JPL.....15s and 16s have too many byes with a lot of JSL teams still to play. Didnt know about Fulham and reckon if that was true then more fool them as Vista seem to have some very good players and they are only JSL as they havent a seniors team in the FFSA.
I can see your point of view, mine has started from the point that U16s should have developed, been trained and at a decent quality to make interesting games as they transition to Seniors and then went to look at the Cup and how I perceive it to be a tad inequitable where JSL teams are meeting JPL A Pool teams in the first round ....when they could meet similar level teams to begin with and then build from this.

Cheers
Geoff9559

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

geoff9559 wrote:
zackadacka wrote:
geoff9559 wrote: I reckon that's a pretty good indication that JSL teams are not really holding their own against JPL teams and that perhaps the FFSA should look at the first round being JSL and JPL C teams.
Really?

A fair proportion of the blow-out (10+) scorelines are JSL-JSL or JPL-JPL games... In Under 12, only 4 of the big margins were JPL v JSL, whilst 5 were all-JSL, not to mention the all-JPL blow-outs. In Under 13, Under 14 & Under 15 the biggest winning scores were registered by JSL teams.

Clearly limiting it to those teams playing each other doesn't solve the issue of massive blowouts. It is a false solution to a problem that is inevitable, players at young ages develop at vastly different rates. The Cup gives teams playing in lower leagues a chance to experience the quality of teams from higher divisions, and can be a valuable learning tool for those players, if used by the coach in the right way.

Clubs also seem to be complicit in the big scorelines, on the evidence of Fulham's effort in the Under 12's... A quick glance at the team sheets shows that they switched their JPL and JSL teams for the cup (Their JPL players played for their JSL team against Modbury Vista [JSL] and their JSL players played for the JPL team against Para Hills Knights [JPL]). Fortunately for the integrity of the competition (and unfortunately for Fulham's players), this resulted in 13-0 & 22-0 losses. There may have to be rule changes to prevent this sort of thing occurring, as it can't be good for the JSL kids that are thrown into the deep end by their own club.
Ok so to get to 'experience' quality....it still has to be around ......and when you have JPL teams knocking off other JPL teams then the lower groups dont really get to experience it. An example is Metro knocking off Birkalla in the U12s, in the U13s this wasnt the case but did have JPL A pools meeting JSL, more apparent in the U14s with JPL teams knocking each other off and therefore JSL teams dont get to meet them - ie Pool A JPL playing Pool C JPL.....15s and 16s have too many byes with a lot of JSL teams still to play. Didnt know about Fulham and reckon if that was true then more fool them as Vista seem to have some very good players and they are only JSL as they havent a seniors team in the FFSA.
I can see your point of view, mine has started from the point that U16s should have developed, been trained and at a decent quality to make interesting games as they transition to Seniors and then went to look at the Cup and how I perceive it to be a tad inequitable where JSL teams are meeting JPL A Pool teams in the first round ....when they could meet similar level teams to begin with and then build from this.

Cheers
Geoff9559
Out of curiosity, as an U18 coach, i took a look at the first round of our cup competition. Now, at this level, i think winning by 5+ goals is a blowout (in comparison to lets say 10+ at younger age groups). The results were as followed:

1. Adelaide City (PL) 6 - 2 Playford Patriots (S1)
2. Eastern United (S2) 2 - 1 Vipers FC (S2)
3. Western Strikers (S1) 3 - 2 Seaford Rangers (S2)
4. Fulham United (S2) 3 - 3 Cove FC (S1) *Fulham 5-3 Pens
5. White City (S1) 2 - 8 Modbury Jets (S1)
6. Adelaide Hills (S1) 0 - 3 Cumberland United (S1)
7. WT Birkalla (PL) 7 - 3 Adelaide Victory (S1)
8. Gawler Eagles (S2) 18 - 3 Mount Barker (S2)
9. Adelaide Blue Eagles (PL) 6 - 0 Adelaide Cobras (S2)
10. Port Pirates (S1) 5 - 1 Noarlunga United (S2)
11. Adelaide Comets (PL) 3 - 1 South Adelaide (PL)
12. Campbelltown City (PL) 3 - 0 Sturt Lions (S1)
13. Para Hills (S1) 1 - 6 Croydon Kings (PL)
14. Northern Demons (S2) 2 - 11 Adelaide Olympic (PL)
15. West Adelaide (PL) 3 - 1 Salisbury United (S1)
16. Adelaide Raiders (PL) 4 - 1 Metro Stars (PL)

So out of 16 games, 5 finished as "blow outs". Thats over 1/4 of the games played. Realistically i think we have to accept that there will be blowouts at junior level in cup competitions as its simply the luck of the draw. The hope has to be that these results are one-offs for the teams and that they're not being repeatedly beaten by similar margins week in week out in their league environments which, realistically, should be graded to suit their level of ability.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by geoff9559 »

Matty,

the three U16 games for the cup were: 20:0, 8:0 and 14:2.....therefore 100% blowouts and there's a 10:0, 14:1, 8:2, 7:1, 6:0, 7:0 in the first three rounds of U16JPL A and 13:0, 7:0, 11:1, 5:0, 10:2, 6:0, 9:1 and 7:0 for U16JPLB and similar in U16JSL - I feel that your idea doesnt hold water as I personally see U16s as being one step for stepping up to U18s (not discounting U17s) and yet there's consistently greater than 5 goal differences in matches in each round let alone the Cup.

So......it could be down to the coaching, the training methods, the long term development of junior players that isnt working and we're not seeing close matches on many occasions as the players could be gravitating to certain clubs at the expense of others and that over a period of time the coaching they have received has not been effective and therefore blowouts still occur in U16s..........

Hey there's a myriad of things that could be attributed to why there are blow outs, however I do feel that long term vision is not being applied in the upper echelons of SOuth AUstralian Soccer towards developing Juniors through appropriate coaching and training.

Food for thought here I reckon as you are correct in touching on this point that the higher up in Junior comps shouldnt see a +5 goal difference and that at real junior levels it could be acceptable....yet it's happening. Be interesting to see how the remaining U16 CUp matches go.

cheers

Geoff9559

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

geoff9559 wrote:Matty,

the three U16 games for the cup were: 20:0, 8:0 and 14:2.....therefore 100% blowouts and there's a 10:0, 14:1, 8:2, 7:1, 6:0, 7:0 in the first three rounds of U16JPL A and 13:0, 7:0, 11:1, 5:0, 10:2, 6:0, 9:1 and 7:0 for U16JPLB and similar in U16JSL - I feel that your idea doesnt hold water as I personally see U16s as being one step for stepping up to U18s (not discounting U17s) and yet there's consistently greater than 5 goal differences in matches in each round let alone the Cup.

So......it could be down to the coaching, the training methods, the long term development of junior players that isnt working and we're not seeing close matches on many occasions as the players could be gravitating to certain clubs at the expense of others and that over a period of time the coaching they have received has not been effective and therefore blowouts still occur in U16s..........

Hey there's a myriad of things that could be attributed to why there are blow outs, however I do feel that long term vision is not being applied in the upper echelons of SOuth AUstralian Soccer towards developing Juniors through appropriate coaching and training.

Food for thought here I reckon as you are correct in touching on this point that the higher up in Junior comps shouldnt see a +5 goal difference and that at real junior levels it could be acceptable....yet it's happening. Be interesting to see how the remaining U16 CUp matches go.

cheers

Geoff9559
I agree that U16s should be a transitional team into the U18s. However, i also think many U18 squads are getting younger. Using my squad as an example (19 players) i have:
1998 Born (U18s) - 7
1999 Born (U17s) - 4
2000 Born (U16s) - 1
2001 Born (U15s) - 7

Now my younger players do get supplemented game time with Junior teams as part of their development, but that's 12 players eligible to play juniors (u15, u16, u17) who aren't playing week in week out at their age level. You have to think this has an effect on the top end quality of these sides. Other clubs, especially the PL clubs, would have more depth. Therefore more players would be playing their own age level. This can create some very strong sides competing against weaker sides.

U12 to U13, U13 to U14, most teams wont change that much. But U14 to U15, and U15 to U16, you start getting large amounts of player movement, so grading systems based on the previous seasons results, can become inaccurate. A top end JPL team could lose 5-6 of its top end players to older age groups, and all of a sudden they become a very weak team.

Just to clarify Geoff, i do believe there are massive issues with coaching in this state. Very few clubs have well rounded development programs in place with coaches doing the right thing by the players and club. I'd honestly say that if you talk to most first team coaches, they'd admit to still having to teach first team players basic technique and tactical information that they should have learned as far back as U12s. Results overshadow development.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by God is an Englishman »

matty2323 wrote:
I agree that U16s should be a transitional team into the U18s. However, i also think many U18 squads are getting younger. Using my squad as an example (19 players) i have:
1998 Born (U18s) - 7
1999 Born (U17s) - 4
2000 Born (U16s) - 1
2001 Born (U15s) - 7
When you add in the 4 players (that I know of) who last year's Under 16's lost to other clubs then it's great to see the youth development happening at clubs now.
West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by ikon »

The cup draw is simply luck of the draw.

I do think its sometimes beneficial for JSL clubs to play JPL and see what all the fuss is about ....sometimes a reality that 3-4 times a week training actually pays off and sometimes highlights how JPLA teams perhaps shouldn't be there.

Coaches really need their heads rung when scores get past 10-0.

My concern isn't the cup draw- Its the blatant manipulation of u/12 leagues to ensure certain clubs make u/13 JPLA......it makes results in u/12's important when it shouldn't be.

Either make it a true zonal competion with 12 teams in each and top 4 go into u/13JPLA or line up juniors with seniors.
Its comical some years how leagues are made up....w

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by geoff9559 »

Ikon,

I feel the cup need not be the luck of the draw.....for each draw......

For me I'd like to see a listed 64 as per tennis etc and then you know who your opponents could be in the next round.....now that would be great and the JPL Pool A teams are 'seeded' and therefore get byes....so seeds 1 to 8 (or whatever is in Pool A) have byes and the rest are pulled out of the hat to where they sit on the schema and then play their matches. Now that could be interesting instead of a total unknown until the week before as to who you might be playing as they've re-drawn the teams and then it is down to virtually how the names were put into the hat. By redrawing each time, yes it adds another factor to how random the draw could be - but doesnt really seem to address the fact that when drawn last year there wasnt any decent shuffling of names - that I observed. And what it does remove is the ability to prepare the team for the next opponent....could be very challenging for coaches and teams.

On a different tack - I have had robust discussions at a club a few years ago where players in U16s ....only 3 were selected to play in U18s the next season as the rest 'werent good enough' ....the problem here is that the club had the players for several years and should have been working on getting them to a comfortable and suitable level to play U18s. But no.... the club loyalty to players goes out the window it seems with some clubs when it comes to seniors and a case being that we let a junior of 6 or 7 years at the club down by not developing them enough - they had potential ....just were never developed by the coaches. I find that very disappointing and yes we have families who move to new clubs to get their child into a team and have no club loyalty ... but have seen kids that were told that they needed to attend all trial sessions to be considered, then a good kid turns up on the last session and makes the team and suddenly a junior of a few years at the club is dropped to either a JSL team or placed in a higher age 'development' team which gets thrashed each week but meant that the club met the criteria of fielding a team in each age group to stay in their league at seniors level.

Cant stop families moving to perceived better clubs and therefore less 'respected' clubs lose a good player and are then on the slippery slope of not being able to attract good players as they are 'only' a Pool C JPL age group.

Definitely food for thought and with the stories of good players poached to teams supposedly by people in power that doesnt look good for the State or the game and does make for very strong JPL teams and some very 'weak' JPL teams who are unable to attract decent players.

It is interesting the comment by Matty that from U14 there is more movement between clubs.....I guess this is where long term juniors do get pushed out of teams and lose their desire to play and possibly abandon the game - we see it in the number of teams fielded in U12s against that of U16s.....

cheers
Geoff9559

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

geoff9559 wrote: It is interesting the comment by Matty that from U14 there is more movement between clubs.....I guess this is where long term juniors do get pushed out of teams and lose their desire to play and possibly abandon the game - we see it in the number of teams fielded in U12s against that of U16s.....

cheers
Geoff9559
By this age, i think as a coach, you can start to distinguish between players who want to play football, and those who want to be footballers. Those who play multiple sports get to a stage where they have to commit to one. Ambitious players also start to want to get themselves in the best environments so that they're ready for U18s in a few seasons.

The issues ultimately stem from a lack of quality coaches and development programs. I sit there and listen to clubs talk about how they produce players, but ultimately what do the clubs actually do? Is there club wide development plans in place? Are they employing the best possible junior coaches to facilitate learning and development programs? or are they simply employing the first dad that volunteers and then judging his success by the W column?

Players (and parents) have also become very impatient. They see 1 kid get an opportunity at a higher level, and immediately think their child deserves the same. If they cant get that at their current club, then they shop around until they can. The issue is they're shopping around at clubs with a reputation of winning, not a reputation of developing. Last season i parted ways with my old club, and of the 17 players in my U14s team, 15 left. For those who wanted to leave, my advice was simple: "pick the coach, not the club". And until we get people realising what a good coach is, you will continue to see loyal kids who spend 6-8 years at junior clubs not make it to senior level because their coaches failed to prepare them and develop them.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Jonny Liḍon »

matty2323 wrote:U12 to U13, U13 to U14, most teams wont change that much. But U14 to U15, and U15 to U16, you start getting large amounts of player movement, so grading systems based on the previous seasons results, can become inaccurate. A top end JPL team could lose 5-6 of its top end players to older age groups, and all of a sudden they become a very weak team.
Maybe so many players wouldn't have left from the Under 16's last year if your club had this policy at an earlier stage. Lack of opportunities to progress was the main reason I was given.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

Jonny Liḍon wrote:
matty2323 wrote:U12 to U13, U13 to U14, most teams wont change that much. But U14 to U15, and U15 to U16, you start getting large amounts of player movement, so grading systems based on the previous seasons results, can become inaccurate. A top end JPL team could lose 5-6 of its top end players to older age groups, and all of a sudden they become a very weak team.
Maybe so many players wouldn't have left from the Under 16's last year if your club had this policy at an earlier stage. Lack of opportunities to progress was the main reason I was given.
I can't comment Jonny, I wasn't at Modbury last season.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

I stand on the sidelines patiently waiting for my turn.
I’ve waited all week and I have energy to burn.
I’m the only sub so it shouldn’t be to long.
I wonder why I never start have I done something wrong.
I tried my best in training.
I tried my best at school.
I’ve behaved well for Mum and Dad and always for coach.
I ask coach if I can play.
He says, the game is really tight.
If you let me on I will play with all my might.
It’s not so fun stuck here alone.
My friends are all playing and I’m shivering to the bone.
I know others are better but I always try my best.
How will I get better if I don’t play with the rest.
My coach wants to win, but I just want to play.
This is my childhood at the end of the day.
I thought this was fun, but it’s not anymore.
Coach isn’t interested in me only the score.
I’m old enough to know I’m not good enough to play.
Maybe it’s time for me to walk away….

I wonder how many kids experience this week in week out with the way Grassroots football is in SA.

Stich This
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Stich This »

Matty I think it's heart-wrenching the way you have put it.
However, if you're referring to JPL games at under 14 and higher,
the kid simply should be playing at a lower level where he will play
most of the game , or play school soccer.

matty2323
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by matty2323 »

Vardy wrote:Matty I think it's heart-wrenching the way you have put it.
However, if you're referring to JPL games at under 14 and higher,
the kid simply should be playing at a lower level where he will play
most of the game , or play school soccer.
For me its at any level of youth football. Why do coaches pick players who they dont intend to play?

There are reasons not to give kids opportunities (lack of discipline, attendance, poor attitude etc) but if a kid is rocking up to every session and giving 100%, the coach has no excuse. Like the poem (which i found on another website) states:

I know others are better but I always try my best.
How will I get better if I don’t play with the rest.
My coach wants to win, but I just want to play.


As an u18s coach i try to attend junior games as often as i can, and the majority of the time i find myself distracted by the coaches and parents rather than watching the kids. For a period last year i resorted to watching futsal. Kids given freedom of expression and allowed to enjoy themselves.

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Jonny Liḍon
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Jonny Liḍon »

matty2323 wrote:
Jonny Liḍon wrote:
matty2323 wrote:U12 to U13, U13 to U14, most teams wont change that much. But U14 to U15, and U15 to U16, you start getting large amounts of player movement, so grading systems based on the previous seasons results, can become inaccurate. A top end JPL team could lose 5-6 of its top end players to older age groups, and all of a sudden they become a very weak team.
Maybe so many players wouldn't have left from the Under 16's last year if your club had this policy at an earlier stage. Lack of opportunities to progress was the main reason I was given.
I can't comment Jonny, I wasn't at Modbury last season.
I know that and if that's how you're running it this year then that's a compliment to you. Maybe next year, so many good players won't be lost.

magnet
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by magnet »

Vardy wrote:Matty I think it's heart-wrenching the way you have put it.
However, if you're referring to JPL games at under 14 and higher,
the kid simply should be playing at a lower level where he will play
most of the game , or play school soccer.
If a kid really wants to play football then club is the only way. School football is an enjoyable addition to club. Whether you play JPL or JSL you are not guaranteed to play a full game. No club will guarantee a full game. If a coach is leaving a kid off the pitch for more than a half then questions should be asked.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by geoff9559 »

there is an elephant in the room that is overlooked.......we talk of CLub and the reference seems to be (inferred) around JPL and JSL and then we speak of School Soccer. What seems to be a cheap alternative which is a similar price to School Soccer but has (in most clubs) a bit of rigor, training and development is amateur clubs. In the U13s JSL there is Elizabeth Grove and Modbury Vista both have very good quality players and half decent coaches.

To expand on Matty's ideal is that the training of coaches should go across into Amateur teams not just the domain of Federation Clubs......this might assist in bringing about more depth, uniformity of training and an overall tougher junior competition in South Australia.

Just my opinion but reckon that Coaching varies so much between clubs and associations and schools that a coordinated program of training coaches (at a reasonable price - not stoopid prices) be rolled out by the FFSA and Amateur leagues and it might mean that Coaching and development of players improves - therefore improved teams and closer tougher matches.

cheers

Geoff9559

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Old Redback »

....to be fair as well it is a bit of a misnoma that the quality of coaching at Fed level is much better. Certainly there are a few coaches in Fed at younger age groups who are qualified and experienced but in many cases in football across not just this state it is likely to be someone's Dad who takes it up because no one else has done it.

The reality is that if Johnny is still playing football in SA at the age of 14 it is EXTREMELY unlikely he is going to be the superstar that little Johnny or his Mum and Dad think they can be and earn his living from the game.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by geoff9559 »

another lot of interesting draws for the Cup across the various ages............

Will be interesting to see the results post the 8th May.

cheers

Geoff9559

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by The moyesiah »

i remember coaching in the ffsa a few years ago, i had an U15 team and played a team within our league. Anyway, the score got to about 7or8 nil so I switched my def to forwards and forwards to def, after another few goals I took the keeper out and put him on the field and took a field player and put them in goals. The keeper came out and scored a hat trick, I then took players off the field and we played a few players short, in the end the scoreline was close to 30-0 and I was still abused for showboating or being cocky, you can't win.

fball12
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Re: Cup round.....

Post by fball12 »

Does anyone know how the next round of the draw is conducted?

Do they put all the teams in a hat (16 left in U15's) and draw the teams completely random or is there some seeding of teams?

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Mrs Red »

fball12 wrote:Does anyone know how the next round of the draw is conducted?

Do they put all the teams in a hat (16 left in U15's) and draw the teams completely random or is there some seeding of teams?

FFSA haven't advised clubs yet of when the draw will take place and all cup draws are random.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Rehagel's Assistant »

The moyesiah wrote:i remember coaching in the ffsa a few years ago, i had an U15 team and played a team within our league. Anyway, the score got to about 7or8 nil so I switched my def to forwards and forwards to def, after another few goals I took the keeper out and put him on the field and took a field player and put them in goals. The keeper came out and scored a hat trick, I then took players off the field and we played a few players short, in the end the scoreline was close to 30-0 and I was still abused for showboating or being cocky, you can't win.
What a load of crock of skata. Did you introduce any teams rules, team tasks etc. putting fowards in defence and vice versa is a half hearted attempt. During the Cup recently, I restricted my team to 7 goals and avoided a 30 goal massacre by designating only the 10s being able to score who happen to be my 3 an 4 in normal game day, coupled with a further rule they had to bounce the 7, 9 and 11. If you really care about not ripping teams to pieces, there are many others things you can do.

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Re: Cup round.....

Post by Old Redback »

geoff9559 wrote:Couldnt help but overhear some people talking, a couple of days ago, about U16s and that at that age there shouldnt be huge scorelines.......
One way to avoid big scorelines is for one team to not bother turning up like what happened in one of the games in the 16s cup on Sunday.....very poor that no one from the club in question would answer a phone call to find out what was happening either. It's disappointing enough the kids couldn't play but to do it at lunchtime on Mother's Day made for a few cross words....

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