Good Coaching Bad Coaching

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Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by John Cena »

Today my sons U9 teams played a team that belted them 6-1 a few rounds ago. With today's game our boys went out there played the ball around and probably played there best game of the season . The opposition we played would not pass to each other hogged the ball and always played a player offside . We ended up winning the game 1-0 .I couldn't believe how the other team reacted after the loss. Shouldn't the coach teach these kids good sportsmanship and offsides and how to play as a team ?

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by matty2323 »

John Cena wrote:Today my sons U9 teams played a team that belted them 6-1 a few rounds ago. With today's game our boys went out there played the ball around and probably played there best game of the season . The opposition we played would not pass to each other hogged the ball and always played a player offside . We ended up winning the game 1-0 .I couldn't believe how the other team reacted after the loss. Shouldn't the coach teach these kids good sportsmanship and offsides and how to play as a team ?
personally i wouldn't be teaching U9s to pass or even consider team play. "hogged the ball" is such an Australian term. Ronaldinho scored 23 goals in an u13 game once when his team won 23-0. Players should be encouraged to dribble, individual flair.. 1v1 is the hardest thing to learn and has to be something you pick up at a young age. Kids can be taught team play once they hit 9v9 and 11v11. (Skill Acquisition and Game Training Phases). Stick to ball striking (shooting) and 1v1/2v2 dribbling and skills! I also wouldn't be worrying about offsides etc and actively enforcing it, merely pointing it out.

Having said all that, the kids shouldn't be taking wins or losses too hard, after all SSGs are about having fun and enjoying the opportunity to play the game. If the lack of sportsmanship is derived from the fact they want to win and nothing else matters, then yes, their coach needs to improve. Some SSGs ive watched remind me of West Ham vs Millwall!

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by aufc_123 »

My personal opinion is that SSG should be a club version of lunch time football. Let the kids 'hog' and have it high scoring, try keep structure to a bare minimum (obviously you have to teach fundamentals). My greatest football education was in the school yard playing 20 vs 20 on a pitch that was 50m long, that's where I learnt to dribble.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by fball12 »

The problem with allowing kids to hog the ball is its the same kids who hold onto the ball the whole game!

No other kids gets to touch the ball. So great for the hogs, not great for the other kids. The whole point of SSG is for kids to get more touches of the ball.

There needs to be some balance and movement of the ball to other players even in SSG's. The coaches I've seen over the past 6 years fail in their responsibility of ensuring all kids get a fair go with the ball, not to mention fair game time as well.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by matty2323 »

fball12 wrote:The problem with allowing kids to hog the ball is its the same kids who hold onto the ball the whole game!

No other kids gets to touch the ball. So great for the hogs, not great for the other kids. The whole point of SSG is for kids to get more touches of the ball.

There needs to be some balance and movement of the ball to other players even in SSG's. The coaches I've seen over the past 6 years fail in their responsibility of ensuring all kids get a fair go with the ball, not to mention fair game time as well.
You solve your first issue with the your second point. Yes, the more advanced players will have the ability to run with the ball more. As will the more physical players. This is where coaches have the responsiblity to rotating players and ensuring all players are exposed to the opportunity to run with the ball.

Like aufc_123 said, SSGs should pretty much be street football/unstructured. Coaches should be trying their best to organise 2-3 games a week to ensure all players are getting lots of game time.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by matty2323 »

Mrs Red wrote:So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.
Im not denying there aren't difficulties, im just saying what i believe is best for the development of players. You cant sacrifice "dribbling" and promote "passing" just to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately, all the players will then suffer.

if you have players dominating as much as you that, maybe they need to be pushed up an age group. Maybe you need two teams per age group - beginner and advanced. Or, like ive done myself - designate players. Simple instructions like "can we look to get the ball to player A.B,C and let them run with it". After say 5 minutes those three come off, and now we look to get the ball to player D,E,F.

I don't have all the answers, im just saying we can't make it too structured. Our players lack 1v1 ability, and unfortunately this stems from being taught "not to be hogs" at a very young age. Nothing wrong with being a hog as a young kid, and then as they get older, teaching them decision making.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by aufc_123 »

matty2323 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.
Im not denying there aren't difficulties, im just saying what i believe is best for the development of players. You cant sacrifice "dribbling" and promote "passing" just to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately, all the players will then suffer.

if you have players dominating as much as you that, maybe they need to be pushed up an age group. Maybe you need two teams per age group - beginner and advanced. Or, like ive done myself - designate players. Simple instructions like "can we look to get the ball to player A.B,C and let them run with it". After say 5 minutes those three come off, and now we look to get the ball to player D,E,F.

I don't have all the answers, im just saying we can't make it too structured. Our players lack 1v1 ability, and unfortunately this stems from being taught "not to be hogs" at a very young age. Nothing wrong with being a hog as a young kid, and then as they get older, teaching them decision making.
Exactly coaches should be using their brains in this way for their players, instead of worrying about how to beat Metro under 9's

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

Push up the better players - yes that's an option - But then you have the extra complexity if the player being the coaches son and then if you push the player up you potentially loss a coach and maybe a team - oh and then you get FFSA fines and maybe loss of senior points - it can be a tangled web at times.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

Of more concern is players (and coaches promoting) that just hoof the ball playing ssf I would rather they at least look to pass or dribble.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by johnydep »

aufc_123 wrote:My personal opinion is that SSG should be a club version of lunch time football. Let the kids 'hog' and have it high scoring, try keep structure to a bare minimum (obviously you have to teach fundamentals). My greatest football education was in the school yard playing 20 vs 20 on a pitch that was 50m long, that's where I learnt to dribble.
Yes that is precisely how SSG was introduced and meant to be implemented - street football style.

Let the kids learn by playing with minimal rules - play fair, control the ball and score goals. The rest of the rules will come when the kids get to the older age groups - U11.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by fball12 »

matty2323 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.
Im not denying there aren't difficulties, im just saying what i believe is best for the development of players. You cant sacrifice "dribbling" and promote "passing" just to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately, all the players will then suffer.

if you have players dominating as much as you that, maybe they need to be pushed up an age group. Maybe you need two teams per age group - beginner and advanced. Or, like ive done myself - designate players. Simple instructions like "can we look to get the ball to player A.B,C and let them run with it". After say 5 minutes those three come off, and now we look to get the ball to player D,E,F.

I don't have all the answers, im just saying we can't make it too structured. Our players lack 1v1 ability, and unfortunately this stems from being taught "not to be hogs" at a very young age. Nothing wrong with being a hog as a young kid, and then as they get older, teaching them decision making.
I'm not saying to make it too structured - just pass the ball occasionally, involve the other players.

I've seen plenty of SSG's the past 6 years and some kids dominate games completely. They do not allow other kids a piece of the action at all and they're not necessarily more skilful, just more forceful and aggressive. The coaches do absolutely nothing to prevent this. This is at clubs that charge $700/yr for U6-9.

It defeats the whole purpose of SSF (philosophy, principles) and does not develop most kids whatsoever, IMO.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Ginger Pele »

fball12 wrote:
matty2323 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.
Im not denying there aren't difficulties, im just saying what i believe is best for the development of players. You cant sacrifice "dribbling" and promote "passing" just to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately, all the players will then suffer.

if you have players dominating as much as you that, maybe they need to be pushed up an age group. Maybe you need two teams per age group - beginner and advanced. Or, like ive done myself - designate players. Simple instructions like "can we look to get the ball to player A.B,C and let them run with it". After say 5 minutes those three come off, and now we look to get the ball to player D,E,F.

I don't have all the answers, im just saying we can't make it too structured. Our players lack 1v1 ability, and unfortunately this stems from being taught "not to be hogs" at a very young age. Nothing wrong with being a hog as a young kid, and then as they get older, teaching them decision making.
I'm not saying to make it too structured - just pass the ball occasionally, involve the other players.

I've seen plenty of SSG's the past 6 years and some kids dominate games completely. They do not allow other kids a piece of the action at all and they're not necessarily more skilful, just more forceful and aggressive. The coaches do absolutely nothing to prevent this. This is at clubs that charge $700/yr for U6-9.

It defeats the whole purpose of SSF (philosophy, principles) and does not develop most kids whatsoever, IMO.
When SSF was first introduced there was a condition put in place that if a player on a team scored 3 goals in a row he wasn't allowed to score again until someone else on his/her team had scored. Some coaches stuck to this but others didn't bother. I liked the rule as it still encouraged the stronger players to express themselves yet at the same time taught them the basics of team work.. Is this rule still implemented???

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

No its not! Even in the very early days one of the powers that be didn't even adhere to that rule with their own child and that's by someone telling everyone else they should do it.

Just like in U6 & 7 age groups we still see 2 coaches on the pitch even to this day. it should not be happening but even when we again point it at to FFSA they appear to not really care or don't have the resources to deal with it.

For all the money clubs give to FFSA, more education of the coaches just starting out their journey needs to occur. When SSF was first introduced FFSA (FFA rep) did do a couple of sessions on how each game within the SSF structure should be played and what coaches should and shouldn't be doing. it was excellent and should be run every year.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by matty2323 »

Mrs Red wrote:No its not! Even in the very early days one of the powers that be didn't even adhere to that rule with their own child and that's by someone telling everyone else they should do it.

Just like in U6 & 7 age groups we still see 2 coaches on the pitch even to this day. it should not be happening but even when we again point it at to FFSA they appear to not really care or don't have the resources to deal with it.

For all the money clubs give to FFSA, more education of the coaches just starting out their journey needs to occur. When SSF was first introduced FFSA (FFA rep) did do a couple of sessions on how each game within the SSF structure should be played and what coaches should and shouldn't be doing. it was excellent and should be run every year.
Do you not think this should be the clubs responsibility? Are they shown this when they do the Grassroots certificates?

Clubs, through their SSG or Junior Coordinators/Directors, should be educating their coaches (and parents and players). Its easy to continuously point the finger at the governing body, but somewhere along the line we have to take responsibility as clubs. I've seen the FFSA make valid efforts to get around to clubs and run sessions like you suggested with the premise that clubs take them on board and self teach new coaches.

This again comes back to the fact that majority of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. As a result, these are the little things that slip through the cracks...

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

I think you have to remember that clubs are generally run by volunteers and most clubs cannot afford a Technical Director nor have paid coaches.

Obviously it is not pointed out to coaches at the grass roots certificate that two coaches should not be on the pitch as if it was then I am sure we would not be seeing this occur every single week by most clubs.

Alot of junior coordinators are junior coaches (volunteers), work full time and then spend 3 - 4 days/nights a week involved with their club so you want them to take on the role of educating their coaches as well. Perhaps the coaching courses need to be reviewed and ensure their outcomes achieve what is needed. After all most clubs are paying for the coaches to do the courses as well.

While I understand you cannot expect the governing body to do everything but considering the money clubs pay them it is my opinion that perhaps they can do a little more for clubs than they are doing?

I have to disagree with you when you say that the "majority" of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. Every club is different and has different people (volunteers) with a myriad of skills and expertise. Sometimes clubs need to be run as a business so you need people with good business sense. You do need people to make good football decisions but at the decision making level in a club you need a variety of people.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

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aufc_123 wrote:
matty2323 wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:So for example you have 2 players out of 10 that have the say 90% of the ball when they on the pitch (they are all on 80% for equal game time). Then the other 8 have to struggle with each other to get a chance for possession in the other 20% of the game when the other 2 players are not on the pitch. (sounds like a Year 12 maths question hey lol)

Its an issue for some SSF coaches, SSF players and parents struggle with.

The 8 get upset and over time and tend to look at their options at year end. Its not an easy one.

The other one is if you have the option of having 2 SSF teams in a particular age group - do you make them as even as possible or do have a stronger and a not so strong team.
Im not denying there aren't difficulties, im just saying what i believe is best for the development of players. You cant sacrifice "dribbling" and promote "passing" just to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately, all the players will then suffer.
if you have players dominating as much as you that, maybe they need to be pushed up an age group. Maybe you need two teams per age group - beginner and advanced. Or, like ive done myself - designate players. Simple instructions like "can we look to get the ball to player A.B,C and let them run with it". After say 5 minutes those three come off, and now we look to get the ball to player D,E,F.

I don't have all the answers, im just saying we can't make it too structured. Our players lack 1v1 ability, and unfortunately this stems from being taught "not to be hogs" at a very young age. Nothing wrong with being a hog as a young kid, and then as they get older, teaching them decision making.
Exactly coaches should be using their brains in this way for their players, instead of worrying about how to beat Metro under 9's

Wasn't Metro

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by themessenger »

Mrs Red wrote:I think you have to remember that clubs are generally run by volunteers and most clubs cannot afford a Technical Director nor have paid coaches.

Obviously it is not pointed out to coaches at the grass roots certificate that two coaches should not be on the pitch as if it was then I am sure we would not be seeing this occur every single week by most clubs.

Alot of junior coordinators are junior coaches (volunteers), work full time and then spend 3 - 4 days/nights a week involved with their club so you want them to take on the role of educating their coaches as well. Perhaps the coaching courses need to be reviewed and ensure their outcomes achieve what is needed. After all most clubs are paying for the coaches to do the courses as well.

While I understand you cannot expect the governing body to do everything but considering the money clubs pay them it is my opinion that perhaps they can do a little more for clubs than they are doing?

I have to disagree with you when you say that the "majority" of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. Every club is different and has different people (volunteers) with a myriad of skills and expertise. Sometimes clubs need to be run as a business so you need people with good business sense. You do need people to make good football decisions but at the decision making level in a club you need a variety of people.
Well said.

In an ideal world, all clubs would be run by full time administrators employing technical directors who educate and support junior coaches in implementing a development focussed coaching curriculum across all players and teams.

However - reality check. This is not the EPL, this is the FFSA. The only exception is AUFC and their youth teams, where players train 5 - 6 times a week and are coached by full time professionals towards following a set structure and format of play. Other FFSA clubs cannot provide this level of junior player development on an ongoing basis.

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Post by matty2323 »

themessenger wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:I think you have to remember that clubs are generally run by volunteers and most clubs cannot afford a Technical Director nor have paid coaches.

Obviously it is not pointed out to coaches at the grass roots certificate that two coaches should not be on the pitch as if it was then I am sure we would not be seeing this occur every single week by most clubs.

Alot of junior coordinators are junior coaches (volunteers), work full time and then spend 3 - 4 days/nights a week involved with their club so you want them to take on the role of educating their coaches as well. Perhaps the coaching courses need to be reviewed and ensure their outcomes achieve what is needed. After all most clubs are paying for the coaches to do the courses as well.

While I understand you cannot expect the governing body to do everything but considering the money clubs pay them it is my opinion that perhaps they can do a little more for clubs than they are doing?

I have to disagree with you when you say that the "majority" of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. Every club is different and has different people (volunteers) with a myriad of skills and expertise. Sometimes clubs need to be run as a business so you need people with good business sense. You do need people to make good football decisions but at the decision making level in a club you need a variety of people.
Well said.

In an ideal world, all clubs would be run by full time administrators employing technical directors who educate and support junior coaches in implementing a development focussed coaching curriculum across all players and teams.

However - reality check. This is not the EPL, this is the FFSA. The only exception is AUFC and their youth teams, where players train 5 - 6 times a week and are coached by full time professionals towards following a set structure and format of play. Other FFSA clubs cannot provide this level of junior player development on an ongoing basis.
Most clubs have people who are willing to volunteer to fill these roles. Even some clubs offer payment. Look at Raiders, they offer the services you suggest, especially U14 and down.

We put ourselves in a small fish bowl and constantly we cant do it... explain what is the difference between federation and amateurs if our objective isn't to produce professional footballers?? everything you say we can't offer because we aren't the EPL is actually quite easily achievable, but people posses your mindset and we never move forward as a state. And then we have the audacity to wonder why we don't produce more prospects. Even the players that have made it from SA in the A-League have either come from elite development squads or had to travel interstate. Clubs are failing and it seems to acceptable.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

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themessenger wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:I think you have to remember that clubs are generally run by volunteers and most clubs cannot afford a Technical Director nor have paid coaches.

Obviously it is not pointed out to coaches at the grass roots certificate that two coaches should not be on the pitch as if it was then I am sure we would not be seeing this occur every single week by most clubs.

Alot of junior coordinators are junior coaches (volunteers), work full time and then spend 3 - 4 days/nights a week involved with their club so you want them to take on the role of educating their coaches as well. Perhaps the coaching courses need to be reviewed and ensure their outcomes achieve what is needed. After all most clubs are paying for the coaches to do the courses as well.

While I understand you cannot expect the governing body to do everything but considering the money clubs pay them it is my opinion that perhaps they can do a little more for clubs than they are doing?

I have to disagree with you when you say that the "majority" of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. Every club is different and has different people (volunteers) with a myriad of skills and expertise. Sometimes clubs need to be run as a business so you need people with good business sense. You do need people to make good football decisions but at the decision making level in a club you need a variety of people.
Well said.

In an ideal world, all clubs would be run by full time administrators employing technical directors who educate and support junior coaches in implementing a development focussed coaching curriculum across all players and teams.

However - reality check. This is not the EPL, this is the FFSA. The only exception is AUFC and their youth teams, where players train 5 - 6 times a week and are coached by full time professionals towards following a set structure and format of play. Other FFSA clubs cannot provide this level of junior player development on an ongoing basis.
matty2323 wrote:Most clubs have people who are willing to volunteer to fill these roles. Even some clubs offer payment. Look at Raiders, they offer the services you suggest, especially U14 and down.

We put ourselves in a small fish bowl and constantly we cant do it... explain what is the difference between federation and amateurs if our objective isn't to produce professional footballers?? everything you say we can't offer because we aren't the EPL is actually quite easily achievable, but people posses your mindset and we never move forward as a state. And then we have the audacity to wonder why we don't produce more prospects. Even the players that have made it from SA in the A-League have either come from elite development squads or had to travel interstate. Clubs are failing and it seems to acceptable.
Matty, sounds like you only know part of the operation of a football club.

For interest sake, please explain in detail the Raiders system of operation.

FYI - all clubs have volunteers, not most. However, all clubs have the problem of - not enough volunteers, not enough volunteers with the required skills, volunteers burn out, etc.

the messenger & Mrs Red are correct in their summary. In an ideal world, local football clubs would have enough finances to hire staff - administration, development coaches and support staff. We are not the EPL or the A-League. We do the best we can with the limited resources and volunteers that we have at our disposal.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by God is an Englishman »

My son plays in the SSG format. I haven't paid my fees for him to play in a glorified street game. I'm paid my feed for him to learn the game and play real football.

I find it silly that they don't play offsides. Seen so many players this year who will be 10 yards offside, what are they learning from allowing that?
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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

God is an Englishman wrote:My son plays in the SSG format. I haven't paid my fees for him to play in a glorified street game. I'm paid my feed for him to learn the game and play real football.

I find it silly that they don't play offsides. Seen so many players this year who will be 10 yards offside, what are they learning from allowing that?
Coaches could just drop a player back to mark any off side players - the attacking player generally gets back into play once they realise they are not getting an advantage. Also the game leader should be looking to advise the player/coach that they will award a free against them if the player continues to try and get an advantage by playing in blatant offside positions.

Offsides are hard enough for a lot of adults to deal with let alone children of 10 and under to understand and by not having them it also negates the issue of having volunteer linesman and all the issues that are around that.

Coaches in Under 11 should be preparing/highlighting/coaching their players for offside though as they will be having them in U12's.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by God is an Englishman »

Mrs Red wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:My son plays in the SSG format. I haven't paid my fees for him to play in a glorified street game. I'm paid my feed for him to learn the game and play real football.

I find it silly that they don't play offsides. Seen so many players this year who will be 10 yards offside, what are they learning from allowing that?
Coaches could just drop a player back to mark any off side players - the attacking player generally gets back into play once they realise they are not getting an advantage. Also the game leader should be looking to advise the player/coach that they will award a free against them if the player continues to try and get an advantage by playing in blatant offside positions.

Offsides are hard enough for a lot of adults to deal with let alone children of 10 and under to understand and by not having them it also negates the issue of having volunteer linesman and all the issues that are around that.

Coaches in Under 11 should be preparing/highlighting/coaching their players for offside though as they will be having them in U12's.
Adults who at who don't understand the offside law should find another sport.

My son's coach is certainly preparing the boys for that - very happy with him.

On the occasions I have red'd I was told there was no offside at all. Not seen a ref pull anyone off at all.

I do disagree about pulling a defender back, teams should be learning about positional behaviours and. It involves defenders pushing up as a unit.
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Mrs Red
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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

Adults who at who don't understand the offside law should find another sport. Some adult players,linesman and coaches don't even know all there is to know about offside - you will probably see this first hand in the up coming years. I think you are being a bit harsh as the offside rule has changed a few times and can be a tricky rule in some instances.

My son's coach is certainly preparing the boys for that - very happy with him. Yes Im sure Stuart is.

On the occasions I have red'd I was told there was no offside at all. Not seen a ref pull anyone off at all. It was put forward as a helping tool for game leaders at the beginning to help stop players playing in offside positions. Its probably fallen by the way side over time.

I do disagree about pulling a defender back, teams should be learning about positional behaviours and. It involves defenders pushing up as a unit.[/quote] its also important for players to start learning to other defensive skills ie being goal side of the forward, covering/supporting each other, jocking ect -
You can still get them to push up as a unit but if you have a goal hanger you just drop one back if really needed - my experience in SSF is if there is a goal hanger and you drop one back then generally the forward will move back more into play - you would also hope the game leader and coach would help resolve the goal hanger issue.
I was a game leader last year and had a goal hanger and I just said to him you know your in a offside position and next year your going to get a free against if you goal hang so I suggest you look to get in the play. He did and the game went on.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Pie and Bovril »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:My son plays in the SSG format. I haven't paid my fees for him to play in a glorified street game. I'm paid my feed for him to learn the game and play real football.

I find it silly that they don't play offsides. Seen so many players this year who will be 10 yards offside, what are they learning from allowing that?
Coaches could just drop a player back to mark any off side players - the attacking player generally gets back into play once they realise they are not getting an advantage. Also the game leader should be looking to advise the player/coach that they will award a free against them if the player continues to try and get an advantage by playing in blatant offside positions.

Offsides are hard enough for a lot of adults to deal with let alone children of 10 and under to understand and by not having them it also negates the issue of having volunteer linesman and all the issues that are around that.

Coaches in Under 11 should be preparing/highlighting/coaching their players for offside though as they will be having them in U12's.
Adults who at who don't understand the offside law should find another sport.

My son's coach is certainly preparing the boys for that - very happy with him.

On the occasions I have red'd I was told there was no offside at all. Not seen a ref pull anyone off at all.

I do disagree about pulling a defender back, teams should be learning about positional behaviours and. It involves defenders pushing up as a unit.
We are still getting refs giving offside when you are in your own half of the pitch. It happens every year.

matty2323
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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by matty2323 »

johnydep wrote:
themessenger wrote:
Mrs Red wrote:I think you have to remember that clubs are generally run by volunteers and most clubs cannot afford a Technical Director nor have paid coaches.

Obviously it is not pointed out to coaches at the grass roots certificate that two coaches should not be on the pitch as if it was then I am sure we would not be seeing this occur every single week by most clubs.

Alot of junior coordinators are junior coaches (volunteers), work full time and then spend 3 - 4 days/nights a week involved with their club so you want them to take on the role of educating their coaches as well. Perhaps the coaching courses need to be reviewed and ensure their outcomes achieve what is needed. After all most clubs are paying for the coaches to do the courses as well.

While I understand you cannot expect the governing body to do everything but considering the money clubs pay them it is my opinion that perhaps they can do a little more for clubs than they are doing?

I have to disagree with you when you say that the "majority" of people in football positions or making football decisions within clubs aren't actually football people with extensive football knowledge. Every club is different and has different people (volunteers) with a myriad of skills and expertise. Sometimes clubs need to be run as a business so you need people with good business sense. You do need people to make good football decisions but at the decision making level in a club you need a variety of people.
Well said.

In an ideal world, all clubs would be run by full time administrators employing technical directors who educate and support junior coaches in implementing a development focussed coaching curriculum across all players and teams.

However - reality check. This is not the EPL, this is the FFSA. The only exception is AUFC and their youth teams, where players train 5 - 6 times a week and are coached by full time professionals towards following a set structure and format of play. Other FFSA clubs cannot provide this level of junior player development on an ongoing basis.
matty2323 wrote:Most clubs have people who are willing to volunteer to fill these roles. Even some clubs offer payment. Look at Raiders, they offer the services you suggest, especially U14 and down.

We put ourselves in a small fish bowl and constantly we cant do it... explain what is the difference between federation and amateurs if our objective isn't to produce professional footballers?? everything you say we can't offer because we aren't the EPL is actually quite easily achievable, but people posses your mindset and we never move forward as a state. And then we have the audacity to wonder why we don't produce more prospects. Even the players that have made it from SA in the A-League have either come from elite development squads or had to travel interstate. Clubs are failing and it seems to acceptable.
Matty, sounds like you only know part of the operation of a football club.

For interest sake, please explain in detail the Raiders system of operation.

FYI - all clubs have volunteers, not most. However, all clubs have the problem of - not enough volunteers, not enough volunteers with the required skills, volunteers burn out, etc.

the messenger & Mrs Red are correct in their summary. In an ideal world, local football clubs would have enough finances to hire staff - administration, development coaches and support staff. We are not the EPL or the A-League. We do the best we can with the limited resources and volunteers that we have at our disposal.
Johnny, i'm a football person. I care solely about the football side of football clubs. i know little about administration and its why i let the administrators (most with marketing or business backgrounds) handle the administration side of the club. You seem to be missing what im trying to say - Administrators run the business side of the club, Football department runs the football side of the club. For whatever reason, the lines have been blurred and we have non football people (volunteers who help out because their son plays at the club etc) all of a sudden thrust into positions where they're responsible for football programs and appointing coaches etc.

What im talking about here is what clubs are offering with their football department. Simple football programs, adhering to the curriculum that has been in place since 2009. Yes, football clubs should be run like businesses to ensure they stay afloat, and clubs should act within their financial restraints.. but at the same time we are football clubs and should be offering football programs that meet a certain standard and criteria. At the end of the day, if we aren't offering a certain standard of coaching and developing, then all we are really doing is taking peoples money.

I couldn't agree more about there being a shortage of volunteers and having them burn out.... but i think both can be solved with football departments. Roles need to be defined, separated into administration and football. You'll find most volunteers burn out because they're covering both areas, and find it very overwhelming. Football people like to commit time to football stuff, where administration people are happy to help out.

Without going into extensive detail, You'll find Raiders has a Junior TD to handle u14s down and a senior TD to handle u15s up. Highly qualified football people who're responsible for coach development, coaching appointments and development programs. Metro are the same and a few other clubs replicate this. This should be the bare minimum.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

Matt,

Clubs would love to operate two different departments as you say - Football and then Administration. Unfortunately due to lack of volunteers the Football orientated people have to do some administration or their club will not survive, so in a sense something has to give - often offering that extra time to ensuring good football programs are in place sadly suffers. But hey if we don't achieve a certain level of accreditation that FFSA requires (administration) then we are told that our club could find itself not in the highest competition. It's a balancing act.

Raiders have the most personnel in their club with links to or who are currently working for FFSA. No other club has the luxury of having so many FFSA coaches on their doorstep to guide and help their club's coaches and football department.

Ginger Pele
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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Ginger Pele »

Quick couple of questions

1- Why do clubs send their coaches to the FFSA Coaching Courses?

2- How many clubs have given the FFA National Curriculum a go?

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Pie and Bovril »

Raiders maybe a good example of how things should operate but it is not representative of most clubs. Most coaches at other clubs have admin roles as well.

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Re: Good Coaching Bad Coaching

Post by Mrs Red »

And don't forget, out of football full time jobs oh and thing called a family to worry about :wink:

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