Juniors in same league as Seniors, will this happen in 2016?

[charlieadelaide]

Are the juniors going to be in the same league as the Senior teams in 2016?..........if so then the demoted teams would wish that their seniors will get promoted again next year, the likes of Strikers, Cumberland or Birks (all with at least 6 teams each in the premier league, mostly As)

State league teams will lose a lot of players too if kids wanna play premier league after next year, teams like Salisbury, Port or Modbury if promoted should do alright with additional players if they go up, but will lose sum if they stay down.

I think the transition will be difficult for a couple of years but will even out in the end, but this may leave the State league behind for a while if all the kids leave to chase that dream.

Thoughts? will your kids move to play premier league?

[The Kings Jesta]

If a club has a good youth program and environment in place then players shouldn't be wanting to move.
Additionally, there are only so many spots on each team; a NPL team can't have all the players (even though some try with the amount of teams they have in each age group).
If a club is worried about losing players, don't first look at, and blame, a league restructure, look internally and ask "why would a player want to leave, what can we do to encourage them to stay?"
West Ham had/has a great academy, not all the players jump ship, they are aware how important that academy is to their overall development, and West Ham know to look after them, to keep them, and in some cases, sell them to help fund the academy.

Aligning all teams with the 1st team doesn't just mean players... it means full days can be scheduled at one ground. It becomes worth opening the canteen and bar, knowing that from 8:45am and through out the day there could be from SSF through to U16s at the ground. The club, even without gate receipts, could probably make more money than on a Saturday.

If players really care about what league they are playing in at junior levels, then let's see those juniors out on a Saturday supporting the 1st team, trying to move them in to (or keep them in) the NPL. And yep, the 1st team can repay the favour with weekly/fortnightly coaching sessions with those same juniors. Win win all around. First team in NPL, juniors in NPL, healthy crowds = money to the club, maybe junior fees come down or facility standards and coaching abilities go up through relevant investments.

Someone explain how all that is a bad thing?

One thing the FFSA could put in place to help ease worries of State League clubs is allow NPL teams to only have one team in each age group (maximum 16 players), but State League teams can nominate for as many as they can fill. This allows State League clubs to pool a greater number of players to help create a 1st team that can push them in to the NPL. It will also allow State League teams to have an obvious windfall of increased revenue from junior fees (it's up to each clubs board to justify to it's stakeholders how it's spent).
Personally, I feel the FFSA should just stop uming and arring and just do it. Like a band-aid. There may be an adjustment period for some clubs, but there will also be massive long term benefits if they can see the bigger picture.

[Hearts]

ssg team playing with no results/tables for fun and development
u/12 playing in zones so teams can be "graded" so as to play against teams of similar ability next year
u/13 to u/17 playing in leagues against teams of similar ability (through promotion etc) no byes
WOW this structure needs to be changed

Club with poor junior set up but splash some cash on their senior team get put in the JPL and get beaten 10 nil every week
Club with strong junior set up but senior team just misses out on promotion stuck in state league winning 10 nil each week
Good for junior development

And what about teams that don't have junior teams in every age group? Just checked out the last 5 game our senior team has played compared to the oppositions junior teams and out of 30 games our junior would of played 12 of them would have been byes due to the opposition not having teams in that age group

As for canteen/bar sales (why a bar would be open for junior games?) if you have a full junior set up (team in each age group ssg team and maybe even some jsl teams) you would have 4 - 7 games at your home ground each week anyway

[The Kings Jesta]

But Bakes, according to most people on this forum, if the 1st team bought it's way to the NPL, then juniors would flock to the club to play in the junior NPL, so it wouldn't matter what level of juniors you had before NPL, as apparently you'd have all the best ones once promoted.
Why mention the the SSG can play without tables so as to promote development, but the U/* age groups need tables and points?
If all aligned with the senior team, then points become irrelevant, and all age groups are focused solely on development.
As for the opening of facilities at grounds, including the bar. The bar doesn't have to be just for alcoholic drinks, some clubs sell all their drinks range through the bar (juice, softies etc.). If the 14's 15's and 16's were post 12pm (the socially recognised time as being ok to crack a beer), and the canteen is cooking burgers etc, what's wrong with parents wanting a beer/wine/spirit etc to go with their lunch? No different to the 18's ressies and 1st team KO times and people use the bar there. If it is additional income for the club, what would be the problem?

[matty2323]

i think majority of people are becoming more educated on the winning-vs-development mentality in our game. i just hope we don't go too far in the opposite direction. Kids still need to want to win, its that mentality that separates the good from the elite. its up to the coaches to ensure that the want to win doesn't sacrifice the development of players.

I recently read an article on FC Barcelona's page. They proudly spoke of all their junior teams winning their respective leagues. There league structures are close to identical to ours - Divisions to ensure kids are developing against kids of similar skill levels. I don't think its our structure that is the problem, its the fact that we still have too many coaches "coaching to win" and not enough clubs enforcing equal game policies and/or the FFA national curriculum.

The federation would be better off investing their time in coach education. Making more seminars available, getting around to clubs and holding more clinics. At the moment someone can coach u6-u17s kids by taking a two day course. This is where the issue lays. My team competes in the u13A division, and i haven't witnessed to many 'blow outs'. Our biggest win is 4-0, our biggest loss 8-4. Most game have been decided by 1-2 goals. Compare this to the U12s where we were getting "zoned". There was 7-8 goal margins almost every game, some reaching 10+. Kids need to play in divisions. This means relegation and/or promotion.

To many people think "i need to be in A division to ATTRACT the best players"... thats a terrible attitude. It should be "if my current group of players is good enough to compete in A division, then they need to be in there to help them best DEVELOP".

[magnet]

The U12's is a joke of a season. It's the kids first season playing in a full team and for some it's a season of mismatch. So far this season there has been over 30 games (YES 30) in which a team has won by over 10 goals and scorelines of 17-0, 18-0, 19-0. There must be another way of structuring this so that it does not put off the kids.

[Socca]

The U12's is a joke of a season. It's the kids first season playing in a full team and for some it's a season of mismatch. So far this season there has been over 30 games (YES 30) in which a team has won by over 10 goals and scorelines of 17-0, 18-0, 19-0. There must be another way of structuring this so that it does not put off the kids.

Develop the kids BETTER before they hit u12s

[magnet]

Are the juniors going to be in the same league as the Senior teams in 2016?..........if so then the demoted teams would wish that their seniors will get promoted again next year, the likes of Strikers, Cumberland or Birks (all with at least 6 teams each in the premier league, mostly As)

State league teams will lose a lot of players too if kids wanna play premier league after next year, teams like Salisbury, Port or Modbury if promoted should do alright with additional players if they go up, but will lose sum if they stay down.

I think the transition will be difficult for a couple of years but will even out in the end, but this may leave the State league behind for a while if all the kids leave to chase that dream.

Thoughts? will your kids move to play premier league?

They'll need to hurry up with the South Road development due to the amount of decent kids from the Southern Suburbs wanting to play in the Prem. Not everyone can play for South Adelaide

[magnet]

The U12's is a joke of a season. It's the kids first season playing in a full team and for some it's a season of mismatch. So far this season there has been over 30 games (YES 30) in which a team has won by over 10 goals and scorelines of 17-0, 18-0, 19-0. There must be another way of structuring this so that it does not put off the kids.

Develop the kids BETTER before they hit u12s

It's not as simple as that. Parents of U7's, U8's etc will always want their kids to play for the so called bigger clubs. It's a common theme across the three zones.

[Socca]

The U12's is a joke of a season. It's the kids first season playing in a full team and for some it's a season of mismatch. So far this season there has been over 30 games (YES 30) in which a team has won by over 10 goals and scorelines of 17-0, 18-0, 19-0. There must be another way of structuring this so that it does not put off the kids.

Develop the kids BETTER before they hit u12s

It's not as simple as that. Parents of U7's, U8's etc will always want their kids to play for the so called bigger clubs. It's a common theme across the three zones.

Is it because the so called 'bigger' clubs more often then not, develop them better ?

[magnet]

It’s a bit hard to compare established clubs that have been around since the 1940’s with new clubs that have been introduced in the last 10 years. It takes years and years to establish a good solid SSF & Junior programs. Let’s help these clubs establish themselves without getting on our high horse.

[blue moon]

In reply to King jester - the main bad point - the inequality in the skill level of teams, lack of competion week in week out. i know in the u/14 jpl this year any team can beat each other on any given day. Your "pros" seem to be limited to the administrative aspects of the game - aggregating bar / canteen facilities, which is a pro but not really a big issue, how will that exactly help develop the players?

[Mrs Red]

The same could be said for the U13 JPL this year.

Much better for players and team development (no matter what level that is) if you are playing teams and players of similar ability. Children are competitive no matter what, but what does impact the situation more negatively is the Coaches and parents attitudes more than the structure of the junior set up.

And Im not sure if the change are even going to help logistically because clubs (in most cases) will not be able to hold all its junior teams on any given Sunday with limited pitch availability. So I can see SSF home games being played every week to some degree at home grounds, so volunteers are still going to be needed every Sunday. And if the junior season is longer with it being linked to the seniors then help is going to be needed more overall, if anything.

I could be wrong, I hope I am.

[The Kings Jesta]

In reply to King jester - the main bad point - the inequality in the skill level of teams, lack of competion week in week out. i know in the u/14 jpl this year any team can beat each other on any given day. Your "pros" seem to be limited to the administrative aspects of the game - aggregating bar / canteen facilities, which is a pro but not really a big issue, how will that exactly help develop the players?

So long as the club is not a money graber:
More money through varied avenues, should in turn result in a higher budget for (but not limited to); equipment, ground maintenance, some clubs may even pay for or subsidise their coaches licence courses. Playing fees may be able to be reduced. Maybe a parent will be asked to film the games(for training game tape sessions) and there could be a financial thank you for their time.
How is that additional money hindering the development of the juniors?

What I personally don't want to see is, if there is any, financial benefits from junior match days being used to fund 1st team transfers and wages. Hopefully most clubs would have a Junior sub committee that can track what additional revenue is brought in from junior match days and allocate that to things that will benefit the juniors.

If the so called "elite clubs" attract all the best players to trials due to this league restructure, how many players can each team actually take on? Don't they already have 15-16 players per team anyway? So where are all the players going to go? If there are already (hypothetically) 300 players and there are 300 spots available, then each team will still have the same amount of players.

[DUKE BLUE]

i think majority of people are becoming more educated on the winning-vs-development mentality in our game. i just hope we don't go too far in the opposite direction. Kids still need to want to win, its that mentality that separates the good from the elite. its up to the coaches to ensure that the want to win doesn't sacrifice the development of players.

I recently read an article on FC Barcelona's page. They proudly spoke of all their junior teams winning their respective leagues. There league structures are close to identical to ours - Divisions to ensure kids are developing against kids of similar skill levels. I don't think its our structure that is the problem, its the fact that we still have too many coaches "coaching to win" and not enough clubs enforcing equal game policies and/or the FFA national curriculum.

The federation would be better off investing their time in coach education. Making more seminars available, getting around to clubs and holding more clinics. At the moment someone can coach u6-u17s kids by taking a two day course. This is where the issue lays. My team competes in the u13A division, and i haven't witnessed to many 'blow outs'. Our biggest win is 4-0, our biggest loss 8-4. Most game have been decided by 1-2 goals. Compare this to the U12s where we were getting "zoned". There was 7-8 goal margins almost every game, some reaching 10+. Kids need to play in divisions. This means relegation and/or promotion.

To many people think "i need to be in A division to ATTRACT the best players"... thats a terrible attitude. It should be "if my current group of players is good enough to compete in A division, then they need to be in there to help them best DEVELOP".

Further more....

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/08/28/be ... l-numbers/

[Coach_Mulatinho]

i think majority of people are becoming more educated on the winning-vs-development mentality in our game. i just hope we don't go too far in the opposite direction. Kids still need to want to win, its that mentality that separates the good from the elite. its up to the coaches to ensure that the want to win doesn't sacrifice the development of players.

I recently read an article on FC Barcelona's page. They proudly spoke of all their junior teams winning their respective leagues. There league structures are close to identical to ours - Divisions to ensure kids are developing against kids of similar skill levels. I don't think its our structure that is the problem, its the fact that we still have too many coaches "coaching to win" and not enough clubs enforcing equal game policies and/or the FFA national curriculum.

The federation would be better off investing their time in coach education. Making more seminars available, getting around to clubs and holding more clinics. At the moment someone can coach u6-u17s kids by taking a two day course. This is where the issue lays. My team competes in the u13A division, and i haven't witnessed to many 'blow outs'. Our biggest win is 4-0, our biggest loss 8-4. Most game have been decided by 1-2 goals. Compare this to the U12s where we were getting "zoned". There was 7-8 goal margins almost every game, some reaching 10+. Kids need to play in divisions. This means relegation and/or promotion.

To many people think "i need to be in A division to ATTRACT the best players"... thats a terrible attitude. It should be "if my current group of players is good enough to compete in A division, then they need to be in there to help them best DEVELOP".

Further more....

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/08/28/be ... l-numbers/

are going to stay at playford to coach? would like to work with you

[magnet]

Is that article for real? I don't know any coaches who advocate "just get rid of the ball".

[matty2323]

are going to stay at playford to coach? would like to work with you

Yes, I can't see myself leaving any time soon!

Is that article for real? I don't know any coaches who advocate "just get rid of the ball".

You obviously don't get around to many games. From seniors through to U6s, i hear those types of directions from coaches on a weekly basis.

[Coach_Mulatinho]

are going to stay at playford to coach? would like to work with you

Yes, I can't see myself leaving any time soon!

Is that article for real? I don't know any coaches who advocate "just get rid of the ball".

You obviously don't get around to many games. From seniors through to U6s, i hear those types of directions from coaches on a weekly basis.

whats your career objectives?

[Socca]

This is getting awkward