Huge Scorelines

[rossonero]

can anyone involved with the juniors confirm the rule from the FFSA regarding high score thrashings????
i was made aware that any win by high score will have a maximum of an 8 goal win.

for example if a team won 20 nil the result will show 8-0

thanks

[de niro]

can anyone involved with the juniors confirm the rule from the FFSA regarding high score thrashings????
i was made aware that any win by high score will have a maximum of an 8 goal win.

for example if a team won 20 nil the result will show 8-0

thanks

Obviously no such rule as evidenced by the 18-0 score on SportingPulse in U14B JPL on the weekend.

[rossonero]

i dont want to get into a discussion of which teams are killing who, i just wanted to know if there was a rule in place as i read it somewhere, not sure if it was in place for the manchester united cup or for the season

[BIG RED]

FYI - I think you will find its for JSL teams only

[Sacred Noodle]

FYI - I think you will find its for JSL teams only

I was told of a 14-0 score involving a.JPL team v a JSL team...showed up on Sporting Pulse.as.8-0 so your probably right..

[GiancarloRed]

It is unfortunate these mismatches still occur presumably despite the efforts of FFSA to place teams in suitable divisions. Random cup draws can see a top JPL side play a struggling JSL side, not much to do except run separate age cup comps but I don't think FFSA wants to do that. How a league score of say 18-0 happens between teams in the same division is a mystery to me but on any day things can unravel, teams can be short of players etc. I think pre-season games (maybe a pre-season age cup) could be used to help qualify teams for divisions if they agree to be open to change. Cove moved down from 15A to 15C in this pre-season, replaced by Modbury who finished 4th in the B division last season. Clubs should be honest and objectively assess their competitiveness, depth etc and make suggestions to FFSA wherever practical to maintain the integrity of the competition and be fair to their players and supporters.

[ikon]

I was involved in a huge scoreline over the weekend ...changed the team as much as possible, brought my keeper on etc..

even offered to play with 9 or 10 players but ref wouldn't allow it ....was happy to cap it but ref wouldnt do it either.

i like sporting pulse capped it at 8.

not a good thing to see ...JPL teams should not be in preliminary cup rounds.

[Toffeefox]

I was involved in a huge scoreline over the weekend ...changed the team as much as possible, brought my keeper on etc..

even offered to play with 9 or 10 players but ref wouldn't allow it ....was happy to cap it but ref wouldnt do it either.

i like sporting pulse capped it at 8.

not a good thing to see ...JPL teams should not be in preliminary cup rounds.

Ikon - it makes no difference if the JPL are in the preliminary or not. If most div A JPL sides play anybody outside of that division a huge scoreline could happen such is the gulf. So just accept that occasionally you might have to play a lesser team and god forbid beat them by a lot of goals.

If it happens the opposition aren't going to worry about it because thats probably what they expected and it just shows the difference in ability and some coaches are smart enough to use it to encourage their young players as to what can be achieved.

The only potential loser in this scenario is the JPL A team who might get complacent and get a shock in which case the "spirit " of cup football is well and truly alive and I for one want that always to be the case.

I am sure that Para Hills JSL u12's three years ago saw it that way when they reached the final beating Birkalla JPL and another very good JPL side in the competition.

[Gommy]

This is the new rule in the guidlines sent to me

8.5 A rule relating to goal difference will apply to all JSL Competitions. This rule applies to any results with a goal difference greater than eight (8). These results will be amended so that the goal difference is equal to eight (8). For example if the score
line is 15 nil, it will be recorded as an 8-0 result. If the score line is 16-2, it will be recorded as a 10-2 result.

[GiancarloRed]

Not sure that recording scores like that makes any real difference and is no consolation to the team that lost 15-0. I think it is far better if the team that is winning easily in a mis-match situation (which is often evident before a team gets to 8-0 or say leads by 7 or more goals) re-focusses on retaining possession and probing for opportunities for longer rather than scoring more. Team and player development is the primary goal, not large winning margins. Astute coaches should understand this and make changes as needed.

[rossonero]

This is the new rule in the guidlines sent to me

8.5 A rule relating to goal difference will apply to all JSL Competitions. This rule applies to any results with a goal difference greater than eight (8). These results will be amended so that the goal difference is equal to eight (8). For example if the score
line is 15 nil, it will be recorded as an 8-0 result. If the score line is 16-2, it will be recorded as a 10-2 result.

thank you Gommy

[Bomber]

Crazy! Thought it was a wind up at first.
Really, what does contrived results really achieve? All it does is mask the obvious. Surely kids should be able to be taught how to cope with a flogging.

[GiancarloRed]

Agreed Bomber, I don't see any benefit in amending scores, no-one actually benefits, appears yet another attempt at political correctness. Mismatches and big scores will happen - up to sensible coaches not to take advantage purely to rack up numbers. Goal difference remains a factor in junior leagues unless promotion / relegation aligns with seniors.

[rossonero]

just want to make something clear, i personally dont have a problem with huge scores or the way coaches approach these type of games, we all have our ideas.

in my opinion by having an 8 goal rule means that there is no point of going out and beating a team by more than 8 goals to increase the goal average to gain an advantage in winning a league or promotion.

i have won the league by goal difference and missed out on numerous promotions by goal difference, people dont remember results or teams achievements, players and parents remember how much they enjoyed the season, the knowledge and skills they have learned and the amount of players from that team that have moved on to bigger and better things.

the aim of the game is to try to outscore the opposition and win the game, and doing everything you possibly can to try and stop the team from scoring cant be the best thing....

[matty2323]

I was involved in a 20+ score line on the weekend. Despite the scoreline, i thought both sets of players were a credit to their respective clubs. The winning team's players were humble and respectful (no gloating) and the losing team's players were committed, never dropped their heads, and continued to play football. Its going to happen in these early cup games when JPL A division sides come up against JPL C division or JSL sides.

Its why im not sure on next years structure about playing in conjunction with the Senior team. We could see these types of results week in week out with the stronger junior set ups, especially in the State League.

[rossonero]

I was involved in a 20+ score line on the weekend. Despite the scoreline, i thought both sets of players were a credit to their respective clubs. The winning team's players were humble and respectful (no gloating) and the losing team's players were committed, never dropped their heads, and continued to play football. Its going to happen in these early cup games when JPL A division sides come up against JPL C division or JSL sides.

Its why im not sure on next years structure about playing in conjunction with the Senior team. We could see these types of results week in week out with the stronger junior set ups, especially in the State League.

I agree, but it may be only a few clubs that may struggle with the results as the majority of clubs in premier league already are in A divisions. it may be an incentive for some clubs to pull their heads in and actually work a lot harder on their youth development

[ikon]

Capping scores has a place i feel ...and the romance of a CUP game shouldn't be lost I agree, but perhaps some thought should go into preliminary rounds where most of these big thrashings occur.

everyone has an opinion for both being on the end of thumping or dishing one out .....kids need to understand they need to work hard to improve...cocky kids need a lesson on being humble its all about how its handled.

some clubs do need to pull their heads in ...having to forfiet due to a team not being registered is poor in anyones language.

a big shout out to our JSL team who had 4 players missing/didn't turn up for various reasons...played the majority of the game with 10 men due to injury,missed a penalty ...hit a cross bar and gave it their all. Proud of those kids and coach who had a frustrating day , while their JPL side won by over 8 goals......If we knew we were going to be short in the JSL would sending JPL players down be seen as helping ?....or trying to win the game?...once again opinions.

"winning isn't everything ...wanting to win is"....try telling a 12 year kid winning doesn't matter..."winning can become a habit ...as can losing "...vince lomabardi.

[GiancarloRed]

Don't agree capping scores is necessary unless we say the mercy rule - as in baseball - applies, maybe at all levels?

I think in juniors the focus should be on performance and not scores / results with any promotion / relegation (may not apply from 2015 on) not being dependent on goal difference but head to head or play-offs.

Coaches need to use common sense and respect the opposition, there is no need to humiliate anyone or score for fun. Some coaches will never get this concept and hopefully are weeded out of the game. Nobody gains in these scenarios.

Mismatches can largely be avoided as I have remarked above. In the Cup only JSL and C sides should play in the qualifying rounds, winners progress to play JPL A and B sides. Not rocket science surely. Why do we have Cumberland JPL play West Adel JSL in the preliminary round (and win 14-0, changed to 8-0) beats me, maybe someone knows.

As for JPL players playing JSL I don't see an issue unless you are loading up deliberately to seek advantage. If a player shortage occurs then JPL players (maybe a maximum number) can be brought down to ensure a fixture proceeds without messing up the integrity of the competition. It is more important that matches get played, competitiveness maintains and kids get experience. Some idiot coaches would prefer to win on forfeit if they can rather than play a fixture.

I am sick and tired of coaches and parents complaining about another team having brought players down (ie the other team being different to last time etc) hence we didn't win, as if they are paid (or expect) to get results but are not able to deliver that due to other teams unfair changes. And to this we add the speculative discussion about over-age Africans etc. This stupidity continues on and on, instead of focussing on your team's performance, what we did well and can learn from. Indeed, if the opposition is stronger than last time (and usually legally so) that is a good thing, as your team will get a tougher contest, better for player development.

[GiancarloRed]

20+ goal margins can be avoided marty2323 and I bet you were on the right side of the ledger. Nobody gains from that kind of match despite you putting a gloss on it. To pretend that a team down 20-0 is not affected by the state of play is defying human nature. Sure kids need to handle winning and losing (and indeed adversity) but we need to have respect here. Not sure what your team tried to achieve or prove after say the 8th goal against woeful opposition. We need to work smarter on how we handle these kinds of situations, as I have suggested in my post, and this may come into play again if clubs with strong junior teams face clubs with weak juniors via the senior : junior NPL alignment. Much depends on the coaching of the teams, common sense and sporting-ness.

[magnet]

U12 JPL can be massively one sided. You have teams in that group from the more estabilished clubs with multiple JSL teams at the same age group. If a club has 1 x U12 JPL and 2 x U12 JSL teams it gives the coaches a pool of 50 kids to choose from. Other clubs with no U12 JSL will only have enough players to get a squad of 14-15. Some teams in the U12 JPL last year won by 15-16 goals.

[matty2323]

20+ goal margins can be avoided marty2323 and I bet you were on the right side of the ledger. Nobody gains from that kind of match despite you putting a gloss on it. To pretend that a team down 20-0 is not affected by the state of play is defying human nature. Sure kids need to handle winning and losing (and indeed adversity) but we need to have respect here. Not sure what your team tried to achieve or prove after say the 8th goal against woeful opposition. We need to work smarter on how we handle these kinds of situations, as I have suggested in my post, and this may come into play again if clubs with strong junior teams face clubs with weak juniors via the senior : junior NPL alignment. Much depends on the coaching of the teams, common sense and sporting-ness.

Indeed, it was my team who won. Agreed, no-one gets anything out of it. I was merely stating that both teams "played the game out" to the best of their abilities. There was no showboating or gloating from my boys, and at no stage did i see the opposition players put their heads down. They still tried to pass, still chased, still pushed forward.. yes im sure they weren't enjoying it, but they never stopped trying.

Its not an easy position to be in as a coach. you want to take players off in an attempt to "even out the game" but then some coaches get insulted by that. You also dont want to take your players off because its they development aswell, they train hard all week and deserve the right to express themselves game day. I put conditions on them, X amount of passes before they could go forward etc in an attempt to ensure we still worked on passing patterns etc. Its normally a one off, This was a u13 JPLA team against a u13 JPLC team.

[geoff9559]

20+ goal margins can be avoided marty2323 and I bet you were on the right side of the ledger. Nobody gains from that kind of match despite you putting a gloss on it. To pretend that a team down 20-0 is not affected by the state of play is defying human nature. Sure kids need to handle winning and losing (and indeed adversity) but we need to have respect here. Not sure what your team tried to achieve or prove after say the 8th goal against woeful opposition. We need to work smarter on how we handle these kinds of situations, as I have suggested in my post, and this may come into play again if clubs with strong junior teams face clubs with weak juniors via the senior : junior NPL alignment. Much depends on the coaching of the teams, common sense and sporting-ness.

Indeed, it was my team who won. Agreed, no-one gets anything out of it. I was merely stating that both teams "played the game out" to the best of their abilities. There was no showboating or gloating from my boys, and at no stage did i see the opposition players put their heads down. They still tried to pass, still chased, still pushed forward.. yes im sure they weren't enjoying it, but they never stopped trying.

Its not an easy position to be in as a coach. you want to take players off in an attempt to "even out the game" but then some coaches get insulted by that. You also dont want to take your players off because its they development aswell, they train hard all week and deserve the right to express themselves game day. I put conditions on them, X amount of passes before they could go forward etc in an attempt to ensure we still worked on passing patterns etc. Its normally a one off, This was a u13 JPLA team against a u13 JPLC team.

Matty - disagree....you can get something out of this.......the JPLC team...they all turned up to training and want to work harder. They had support from the 10year olds on the day (that happened to be out to train) as the team is new (5 weeks old) with a new coach and requiring match fitness they all learnt something from that. And yes your team looked good, they should be judging by last year's results and agree they behaved well and were the sportsmen that you can only wish for - well done. It is now something for these JPLC players to aim for and others have mentioned this in this thread previously as you can look at how a good team has the work effort, has the head for the game, cohesiveness and you can aim for this benchmark.
Cheers
Geoff9559

[GiancarloRed]

Respect the view of Geoff9559 but there is little to be gained by such mismatches, certainly not by the winning team, and the losers, well, the players don't really get any more from such a match than what they knew or had before, as per advised by their honest coaches, unless they have been led to believe other things. You can hope they kids are more motivated to work hard after such a loss (and don't get de-motivated) but if they are keen they will return in any case. We need to respect the competitiveness aspect as well as player development, and try to make good keen matches at all levels, giving everyone a fair opportunity as trying to win remains a part of the equation. I think all JPL C and JSL sides should play in the preliminary round of the Cups with the winners moving on to play JPL A and B sides.

[Jett]

Respect the view of Geoff9559 but there is little to be gained by such mismatches, certainly not by the winning team, and the losers, well, the players don't really get any more from such a match than what they knew or had before, as per advised by their honest coaches, unless they have been led to believe other things. You can hope they kids are more motivated to work hard after such a loss (and don't get de-motivated) but if they are keen they will return in any case. We need to respect the competitiveness aspect as well as player development, and try to make good keen matches at all levels, giving everyone a fair opportunity as trying to win remains a part of the equation. I think all JPL C and JSL sides should play in the preliminary round of the Cups with the winners moving on to play JPL A and B sides.

I certainly agree...

[Steve#4]

Respect the view of Geoff9559 but there is little to be gained by such mismatches, certainly not by the winning team, and the losers, well, the players don't really get any more from such a match than what they knew or had before, as per advised by their honest coaches, unless they have been led to believe other things. You can hope they kids are more motivated to work hard after such a loss (and don't get de-motivated) but if they are keen they will return in any case. We need to respect the competitiveness aspect as well as player development, and try to make good keen matches at all levels, giving everyone a fair opportunity as trying to win remains a part of the equation. I think all JPL C and JSL sides should play in the preliminary round of the Cups with the winners moving on to play JPL A and B sides.

Nailed it..... high score lines are a benifit to no one.

[BOING BOING]

After all that now the results page on sporting pulse has been changed and the real scores 22-0 etc have been posted. Why change them now?

[Bomber]

After all that now the results page on sporting pulse has been changed and the real scores 22-0 etc have been posted. Why change them now?

Better to illustrate reality rather than fantasy I would have thought.

[GiancarloRed]

Agreed Bomber, the actual scores should be recorded not the adjusted (misleading) ones, honesty is usually the best policy.

[magnet]

I see all the U12 JPL and U12 JSL games are by eight goal margins.

[Toffeefox]

Magnet- I think you are mistaken, take a look at the u12 Yellow division week 1 and week 2 Raiders scores are a bit higher than that!