Results 9/9

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barchetta
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Re: Results 9/9

Post by barchetta »

AL K HOLIC wrote:Is it better for the league and these kids to thump a JSL team week after week or Move down the road and easily slip into a JPL side that had no wins, therefore making that side competitive and also help develop any team they play and themselves.

Is it better for the league to have no age groups in the JPL while clubs down the road have JSL teams.

Everyone asks is it about wining? It seems so with many JSL teams and players and parents would rather win in no leagues than join the JPL and possibly not.
Over the years teams that have won every game don't get better. The only way for them to improve is to play in better competitions. The kids get bored with winning every game. Notg saying they want to lose but they do lose their edge when they win every game. The parents are the same. Parents become cynical and do wonder whether its alll about the $$.

Faith No More
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Re: Results 9/9

Post by Faith No More »

Some clubs struggle to get 30 kids to trials in some age groups, whilst other JSL teams get a full squad , at least half being JPL level players.
I think that's the point that AL is making.
thats why you see some JPL teams, who are developing players, some who are struggling at A or B division , down the bottom , whilst JSL teams go undefeated.
am i on the right track AL ?
Evening out the playing field would be good for many, both players & clubs.

barchetta
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Re: Results 9/9

Post by barchetta »

Fair comment Faith No More. My boy plays at a good club in good team. I'm being honest here, I would rather see him move from his team to go to a developing one that has a good coach. Trouble is, he won't budge. Other team officials have approached us to move but the boy is stubborn.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by johnydep »

barchetta wrote:
Željko Jurin wrote:If these players are so talented, then why are they in JSL to start with ?
Ahh. The perputaul dilemma. Because their skills are not as good as the JPL. Then there's the other reasons open to speculation.
Has anyone thought that maybe some players require a stint in the JSL, and that a good coaching environment helped to develop the players and team?

The FFSA should not be involved in choosing winners, they must encourage more people to take up the sport. The suggestion of "forcing" kids from JSL to JPL, and from one club to another, is a wrong and won't work. Zones will not work. Take public schools as an example; schools in different zones perform differently, people will find ways to get into other zones.

It's up to individual clubs, their committee, to find ways to get talent to join their club. It is not the job of our governing body to force people to go places they don't want to.

Lastly; not every kid wants to play in the JPL.

AL K HOLIC
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Re: Results 9/9

Post by AL K HOLIC »

Faith No More wrote:Some clubs struggle to get 30 kids to trials in some age groups, whilst other JSL teams get a full squad , at least half being JPL level players.
I think that's the point that AL is making.
thats why you see some JPL teams, who are developing players, some who are struggling at A or B division , down the bottom , whilst JSL teams go undefeated.
am i on the right track AL ?
Evening out the playing field would be good for many, both players & clubs.

Bingo

Make the JSL totally club run, no points, no refs, just kids having a game and enjoying football, hoping to develop and break into their sister JPL sides.

They have no promotion or relegation so why have points?

It just seems every single JSL league has two runaway teams flogging the hell out of these kids and the rest are what the JSL is all about.

U12Blue
1st 12points clear of 3rd
2nd 9 points clear of 3rd
U12Red
1st 26 points clear of 4th
2nd 20 points clear of 4th

While U12JPL
2 clubs no wins
1 club 1 win
1 club 2 wins
-----
U13Blue
1st 20 points clear of 3rd
2nd 16 points clear of 3rd
U13Red
1st 24 points clear of 2nd

While U13JPL
2 clubs have 0 wins
1 club has 2 wins
2 clubs don't even have a team
-----

This goes on throughout every age group. These kids need to be in the JPL.

Everyone goes on about the kids just want to play, and should be allowed to, however how many kids do we lose from JPL teams after seasons like this? I would love to see the stats of returning players from the prior year with these teams;

1 club 1 win
1 club 2 win
2 clubs have 0 wins
1 club has 2 wins

Why is it so hard to understand for some, wouldn't stronger more exciting JPL leagues from A-C bring more players in? vs 100 plus goals smashed past teams with kids and parents just hoping the season will end. The JSL & JPL can work better as a combined business, right now it is 32 business' all fighting each other and you wonder why we have a win at all cost attitude from some, but what would I know, right?

Maybe the FFSA should could simply bring in a clause, you are registered as JSL or JPL there is no switch, maybe then players will think of a move. Something has to be in place to atleast try.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by johnydep »

AL K HOLIC wrote:
Faith No More wrote:Some clubs struggle to get 30 kids to trials in some age groups, whilst other JSL teams get a full squad , at least half being JPL level players.
I think that's the point that AL is making.
thats why you see some JPL teams, who are developing players, some who are struggling at A or B division , down the bottom , whilst JSL teams go undefeated.
am i on the right track AL ?
Evening out the playing field would be good for many, both players & clubs.

Bingo

Make the JSL totally club run, no points, no refs, just kids having a game and enjoying football, hoping to develop and break into their sister JPL sides.

They have no promotion or relegation so why have points?

It just seems every single JSL league has two runaway teams flogging the hell out of these kids and the rest are what the JSL is all about.

...........
Have you checked the U16 and U17 JPL leagues? Please go check out all the U16 and U17 age groups; no JSL leagues in those age groups, yet there are still teams on the bottom of the ladder with very few wins. What should the FFSA do about that? Maybe make the top 5 clubs split their teams in half and send players to clubs at the bottom to try and equalise the competition :roll:

PS. about 3 or 4 years ago, before the JPL was introduced, we had an U13 A team that was defeated in their first game; 25:1.
Every game after that was a struggle but the team kept trying, with help and assistance from the club.
The team managed to win 2 or 3 games for the year, trying various ideas and always keeping the players and parents informed.
Most of those players stayed on for the following year. This year, half of those players made it into the 16A, 17A teams, the U19's and Reserves.

Faith No More
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Re: Results 9/9

Post by Faith No More »

JD, your point is valid & Croydon promote players extremely well.
Many other clubs do not.
I think that is one of the points that AL was making.
Yes it is the responsibility of clubs to promote their clubs, not the FFSA.
It is their role to run the competition effectively, maximising the potential our youth have in this state .

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by AL K HOLIC »

16/17s will always struggle, license, girls, Yr12 etc.

But again you miss the entire point all you see is $$, if we get these boys into the JPL systems, guess what, clubs can then raise MORE kids into those teams, making it a dominoes affect. Sure it won't matter with some clubs, however on a whole it will help everything, stronger leagues, more JPL players. Clubs and FFSA can still have their J$L teams, but lets make them what they are, not a festival for strong teams to tear out kids hearts weekly.

one simple rule, players are registered as J$L, or JPL, and can not switch in a given season. This could make a whole difference, if not, then we know the % of parents and players do want to win and not develop and would rather play for an AC J$L rather than a weaker JPL team 10 minutes away.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by johnydep »

Faith No More wrote:JD, your point is valid & Croydon promote players extremely well.
Many other clubs do not.
I think that is one of the points that AL was making.
Yes it is the responsibility of clubs to promote their clubs, not the FFSA.
It is their role to run the competition effectively, maximising the potential our youth have in this state .
I understand that. However, I do not agree that the FFSA should be forced to make new regulation/rules that will weaken successful clubs, to assist struggling clubs.

Our club uses the two leagues, JSL and JPL, for the benefit of development and loyalty. Children develop at different rates, some start of in the JPL and drop off, then need time in the JSL. We have at least a dozen players that have been promoted from the JSL into the JPL, even into the senior structure; most of them started at the club as little kids.

If you take away the JSL structure, you will hobble development. Clubs that decide not to have JSL teams, will struggle to develop players in large numbers.

The JSL and JPL should be used in combination, not separated. Players (and parents) must understand that if they perform they will have the opportunity to be promoted - JPL, if they struggle they will be given the chance to improve in a less competitive environment - JSL.

We introduced this idea two years ago, this year we have seen the benefit of it. Player development has been exceptional. The ultimate goal should be to get into the first team.

Clubs that can not entice players must ask themselves some simple questions, that include; why?
Sometimes only a couple of things need to change.

Enfield City was a club that struggled to get numbers, they introduced a qualified Development Coach to oversee the juniors and haven't looked back. Every year since his position was created, player numbers have increased.

If the FFSA is required to help spread player numbers to struggling teams, there is only one way - education. Help clubs learn new ways to entice players to join their club, help them to increase their membership numbers. Maybe start a forum, where the successful clubs can pass on their knowledge and ideas.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by johnydep »

AL K HOLIC wrote:16/17s will always struggle, license, girls, Yr12 etc.

But again you miss the entire point all you see is $$, if we get these boys into the JPL systems, guess what, clubs can then raise MORE kids into those teams, making it a dominoes affect. Sure it won't matter with some clubs, however on a whole it will help everything, stronger leagues, more JPL players. Clubs and FFSA can still have their J$L teams, but lets make them what they are, not a festival for strong teams to tear out kids hearts weekly.

one simple rule, players are registered as J$L, or JPL, and can not switch in a given season. This could make a whole difference, if not, then we know the % of parents and players do want to win and not develop and would rather play for an AC J$L rather than a weaker JPL team 10 minutes away.
We do not register players for income! Having more players costs us time and effort, puts strain on our volunteers and available resources. We have considered cutting our size to make things easier, but once we looked at the player development we decided that the system is working too well to abandon.

JSL and JPL players are treated equally, we offer them the same resources and opportunities. We have promoted and relegated players, for their performance and attitude. Our junior and senior structure is interlinked, junior players are given the opportunity to train and play in the senior structure. Our senior coaching staff come out to junior training and games, they monitor player development and offer assistance.

Our clubs goal is to help young players to achieve their goal, if they want to reach the highest levels possible all they have to do is show us, practice and improve. If they have whats required they will be promoted.

For all this to work, we need the JSL and JPL league structure.

It's all a work in progress, each year we get better at it, and so do other clubs. One thing football needs in this State is a long term plan and structure. Not continual change.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by Željko Jurin »

johnydep wrote: Clubs that can not entice players must ask themselves some simple questions, that include; why?
Sometimes only a couple of things need to change.

Enfield City was a club that struggled to get numbers, they introduced a qualified Development Coach to oversee the juniors and haven't looked back. Every year since his position was created, player numbers have increased.

If the FFSA is required to help spread player numbers to struggling teams, there is only one way - education. Help clubs learn new ways to entice players to join their club, help them to increase their membership numbers. Maybe start a forum, where the successful clubs can pass on their knowledge and ideas.
Agree ..... only 6 years ago our juniors were not in a good state, now even AC is looking over their shoulder :wink: :lol:
Spot Željko Jurin Jnr ......

Image

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by AL K HOLIC »

johnydep wrote:
Faith No More wrote:JD, your point is valid & Croydon promote players extremely well.
Many other clubs do not.
I think that is one of the points that AL was making.
Yes it is the responsibility of clubs to promote their clubs, not the FFSA.
It is their role to run the competition effectively, maximising the potential our youth have in this state .
I understand that. However, I do not agree that the FFSA should be forced to make new regulation/rules that will weaken successful clubs, to assist struggling clubs.

Our club uses the two leagues, JSL and JPL, for the benefit of development and loyalty. Children develop at different rates, some start of in the JPL and drop off, then need time in the JSL. We have at least a dozen players that have been promoted from the JSL into the JPL, even into the senior structure; most of them started at the club as little kids.

If you take away the JSL structure, you will hobble development. Clubs that decide not to have JSL teams, will struggle to develop players in large numbers.

The JSL and JPL should be used in combination, not separated. Players (and parents) must understand that if they perform they will have the opportunity to be promoted - JPL, if they struggle they will be given the chance to improve in a less competitive environment - JSL.

We introduced this idea two years ago, this year we have seen the benefit of it. Player development has been exceptional. The ultimate goal should be to get into the first team.

Clubs that can not entice players must ask themselves some simple questions, that include; why?
Sometimes only a couple of things need to change.

Enfield City was a club that struggled to get numbers, they introduced a qualified Development Coach to oversee the juniors and haven't looked back. Every year since his position was created, player numbers have increased.

If the FFSA is required to help spread player numbers to struggling teams, there is only one way - education. Help clubs learn new ways to entice players to join their club, help them to increase their membership numbers. Maybe start a forum, where the successful clubs can pass on their knowledge and ideas.
John I'm not saying don't have the JSL, I'm just saying that some of the teams/players shouldn't be in it. The JSL to my understanding was more about attempting to spread the talent, to make our leagues strong from top to bottom. If that is still the goal then it needs a revamp, if it is not the goal, then why did the FFSA make it to begin with, because we had two teams before the JSL.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by New Boy On The Block »

Bring back the old system where the only restriction was that a "B" team couldn't play in the "A "division. The teams then grade themselves. There were some club A teams playing in the B or C division because that's were their team development was at. If players are happy with the club that they're at why should they move move to another club just to "spread the talent".
The clubs that work hard to get the best for the players development in their club, should be rewarded, with having a greater number of players wanting to be there. That is probably why the the results in the JSL are what they are, in my opinon anyway.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by harrycripps »

In the bad old days when clubs had a team in A’ and a team in B’S, certain clubs tried to dominate leagues by playing their strongest teams across divisions in crucial games to win leagues or avoid relegation.

This was done so as to give the impression that the club was the BEST club in town, they could justify high fees without the need for quality coaching (as the best players can win games anyway and even more so when you can stack teams).

The JSL has come in to avoid polarisation of talent and level the playing field between clubs. The clubs that do the right thing by the kids will be rewarded in the long run.

Some clubs still stack their teams under the guise of ‘development’, but there are certain things that the FFSA cannot legislate.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by fossil »

johnydep wrote:
AL K HOLIC wrote:16/17s will always struggle, license, girls, Yr12 etc.

But again you miss the entire point all you see is $$, if we get these boys into the JPL systems, guess what, clubs can then raise MORE kids into those teams, making it a dominoes affect. Sure it won't matter with some clubs, however on a whole it will help everything, stronger leagues, more JPL players. Clubs and FFSA can still have their J$L teams, but lets make them what they are, not a festival for strong teams to tear out kids hearts weekly.

one simple rule, players are registered as J$L, or JPL, and can not switch in a given season. This could make a whole difference, if not, then we know the % of parents and players do want to win and not develop and would rather play for an AC J$L rather than a weaker JPL team 10 minutes away.
We do not register players for income! Having more players costs us time and effort, puts strain on our volunteers and available resources. We have considered cutting our size to make things easier, but once we looked at the player development we decided that the system is working too well to abandon.

JSL and JPL players are treated equally, we offer them the same resources and opportunities. We have promoted and relegated players, for their performance and attitude. Our junior and senior structure is interlinked, junior players are given the opportunity to train and play in the senior structure. Our senior coaching staff come out to junior training and games, they monitor player development and offer assistance.

Our clubs goal is to help young players to achieve their goal, if they want to reach the highest levels possible all they have to do is show us, practice and improve. If they have whats required they will be promoted.

For all this to work, we need the JSL and JPL league structure.

It's all a work in progress, each year we get better at it, and so do other clubs. One thing football needs in this State is a long term plan and structure. Not continual change.
isn't the change coming next year with the age issues coming in at u/16 to u/18 will the FFSA dare to run a jsl style comp or loose more juniors from the code

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by grumbly »

So....any more results from the weekend? U17c's?

Salisbury beat SA Central 8-0 or something like that. Even the keeper scored :)

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by PhilDunphy »

U17A Round 15 catch up game

Campbelltown 2 - 3 Croydon

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by SSFs »

gazza wrote:Did any one from the under 19s drop down for this game?
Para hills did not drop any players. Para hills has a strict policy not to bring players down unless there is absolutely no alternative. Players are always brought up where possible. No player is benched or sacrificed to make way for players coming down.[/quote]

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: As clear as black and white[/quote]

Para Hills takes pride in not dropping players to try and manipulated results. As a junior club its success is based on having faith in its young players and it will not undermine their development or self esteem in an effort to 'guarantee' a win.[/quote]

Same policy as every other Clubs.
Unfortunately, every club have idiots including Para Hills, who sometime put their own interests first.[/quote]

You are misguided if you believe Para Hills do not drop players down. Just ask the coaches.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by AL K HOLIC »

clubs never drop players
clubs never play to win
its all about fun
and of 2013 all clubs can only sell vegemite sandwiches

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by PhilDunphy »

SSFs wrote:You are misguided if you believe Para Hills do not drop players down. Just ask the coaches.
in my experience at Para Hills for the past 5 years, our teams have always promoted boys from YOUNGER age groups.
only time a player has been brought down to play has been if players from below are not available to fill in.
this is done as a last resort because of injuries or absences and NOT to facilitate wins.........unlike some other clubs that you've failed to mention :roll:

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by SSFs »

MrsBrown wrote:
SSFs wrote:You are misguided if you believe Para Hills do not drop players down. Just ask the coaches.
in my experience at Para Hills for the past 5 years, our teams have always promoted boys from YOUNGER age groups.
only time a player has been brought down to play has been if players from below are not available to fill in.
this is done as a last resort because of injuries or absences and NOT to facilitate wins.........unlike some other clubs that you've failed to mention :roll:
I take it you didn't ask the coaches. If you haven't maybe you should.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by theone »

SSFs wrote:
MrsBrown wrote:
SSFs wrote:You are misguided if you believe Para Hills do not drop players down. Just ask the coaches.
in my experience at Para Hills for the past 5 years, our teams have always promoted boys from YOUNGER age groups.
only time a player has been brought down to play has been if players from below are not available to fill in.
this is done as a last resort because of injuries or absences and NOT to facilitate wins.........unlike some other clubs that you've failed to mention :roll:
I take it you didn't ask the coaches. If you haven't maybe you should.

So the 3/4 reserve/19 players dropped down against Modbury (and started) on wendsday night in a game you had to win to stay top when you could have brought players up is part off the club policy. Not to mention some of those same players played UNDER 16 during the year.

Every club drops players no exeptions - for wahtever reason.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by rabbit »

I take it you didn't ask the coaches. If you haven't maybe you should.[/quote]

I was a Coach there for nearly 8 years and "dropped players down" maybe twice in that time.....

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by SSFs »

rabbit wrote:I take it you didn't ask the coaches. If you haven't maybe you should.


I was a Coach there for nearly 8 years and "dropped players down" maybe twice in that time.....[/quote]

Thats nice. I think they drop players down a bit more often than that at the moment.

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Re: Results 9/9

Post by groucho marx »

SSFs wrote:
rabbit wrote:I take it you didn't ask the coaches. If you haven't maybe you should.


I was a Coach there for nearly 8 years and "dropped players down" maybe twice in that time.....
Thats nice. I think they drop players down a bit more often than that at the moment.[/quote]

I did ask the Para Hills coach. He explained that on Wednesday night all fit regular U/17 players started on the park. He had six players out, all with injuries, illness or school commitments, three of these  players withdrew on match day leaving the team with only nine players. Two U/16 players were brought into the team. Because of the short notice and because these players were easily contactable three U/19s were also brought into the team (all of whom incidentally are eligible to play U/16's). Two U/19's did start the game. The third only played the last 5 minutes of the match. There is no question that had the coach a fully fit squad he would not have used any of the nineteens. He was thankful however, that they did play and he was happy with the performance of the whole team. He gave special mention to the two U/16 boys who he felt had outstanding games.

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