FFA or FFSA style of playing

[Left Right Out]

I just wanted to know what your club does with regards to playing the FFA/FFSA way when it comes to junior soccer. I HEAR some clubs follow it and the positioning and playing the ball out from the back etc and more to the point playing for development not fun.

Now its getting mid season for junior leagues and the way I understand the leagues get sorted for the next year is results so my question is.

What is happening at your club? Are you high, mid or lower on the ladder?

Example: I watched a game at a club a week or 2 ago - Under 12's or 13's. 1 team LOOKED (Wasnt privvy to instructions or positions) like they were playing set positions, good football, playing out from the back (and I mean GK did not kick the ball once) the opposition were just playing soccer, GK kicking long, lots of booting balls forward to me it looked like what CAN HAPPEN this team wanted to win, wanted to score goals and played a good attacking style of soccer and they were winning the opposition at half time and are lower on the ladder and to me they changed the way they played, GK kicked the ball a few times, Longer balls down the line rather than shorter stuff.

Now who is right who is wrong?

What happens at your club? and Why?

I will be watching sapsaasa next week my daughter is involved her coach has made it very clear that he will be doing the FFSA thing and playing to that format he stressed its about development NOT RESULTS. Which is great BUT will there be other clubs that play for development or will they want to win it!

[MR Black]

My opinion is no one is right or wrong. Who said the FFSA is right? My son plays junior football & as far as I can see he is getting coached by a very good coach. I dont get too involved these days but his club play to win as all clubs do, dont kid yourself. BUT the juniors get coached correctly. I want someone to explain to me what this FFSA style means & what are they trying to achieve? Because from my experiance for over 40 years is what is right today will be wrong tomorrow. I have seen this so many times in all aspects of life including sport. Schools are a perfect example. I realy dont understand why we all have to play the same anyway. If the FFSA & all its followers realy underatand football they would respect the fact that football is played in more than 1 way. Brazil, Germany & Italy are the most successfull football nations on the planet. Yet the Germans & the Italians are constantly rubbished becuase they play negative. The Brazilians are another brand to which I dont like but RESPECT. So why is it that Australia, an infint in world football makes a decission to take on a Dutch style of football. (one of the most unsuccessfull nations in the world in comparison) & even employ unknown Dutch people) Then they want all clubs to do the same! If you guys think that they teach juniors on the other side of the world not to win and to "develop only" you are all living in dream land. PLUS the FFSA & all the sporting fraternity in this country do not spend trillions of dollars on sport for development. Millions are spent to win 1 gold medal. Millions are spent to win 1 silver medal & millions are spent to win 1 bronze medal. Australia "brags" about how they win more gold medals than England but what they dont tell you is how much of the tax payers money they have spent to win it. So in this country money is spent on WINNING. As far as I am concerned I think football in this country has gone backwards from 30 years ago. Why? Because 30 years ago with the little we knew the people involved did it because they loved it. Today we have wonna bes & has beens involved, people who realy dont care but are there for themselves. They are all now like politicians & they know who they are.

[FUBAR]

Development vs Winning?

Its the winning at all cost mentallity thats the issue. Coaches getting so animated on the sidelines and kids playing with fear is the problem. Let the kids play natrually as im sure they all want to win and have a competative spirit. Thats development.

Playing the FFSA way??? Its actually the FFA way. Its about producing technically better footballers, what does an junior team achieve by having a child who has physically developed quicker than then rest and is physically stronger and faster who plays upfront and everyone else just "boots" it to him for him to score goals?? Sure you winning games now but really who is it benifiting???

Theres nothing wrong with playing more direct as long as its in a structred and purposful manner and not all the bloody time!!

[Nova]

The term "Winning" and it relevence is being taken out of context by most. It's a natural thing for players to want to win, it's importance is aimed at clubs and coaches not to have a main focus on just winning but to try develop players with adequite technical ability
The formation being 433 or whatever is not too important as long as there is some system to play and we try play out from defence

[Željko Jurin]

Every work place has a 'system' to follow, every school has a 'system' to follow, we don't let employees or teachers just come in and do their own thing everyday, they need to follow some sort of plan or curriculum, and how they get to the final product is up to them, as long as they get to
the final outcome that is 'desired' ...

The 1-4-3-3 is a game day 'system' and is only a small part of the plan, it's what you do at trainings that is the major part that if is not done correctly, will end up in one big mess, just like what we adults do at work

Too many people have taken the headings as gospel (eg) '1-4-3-3' and 'Dutch system'

These 'aspects' of the plan/curriculum are used by alot of different countries and clubs around the world, not just in Holland, and are only a small piece of the pie

Before the Dutch and the FFA Curriculum came in, there was no plan or guide to follow, it was just a free for all, one big mess, where a couple of not bad players got spat out at the end

If there was no Education Department to lead the education of children around Australia, and teachers just went for it, would kids get educated to their full potential ?

In football we are not just learning a 'Dutch' system, the Dutch have come in to help us implement 'a' system to help do what we are supposed to be doing as clubs and coaches, better !!

[MR Black]

If you ask coaches they will all say they are developing their players along with the winning idear. Playing out at the back is a good example & I totaly agree with this play. (its been happening for years but new to us!) However, you see it at the Euros that many GK are kicking out all the time. There is a place & time for everything. But to play out at the back & keep possession in your own half for 10/15 mintues at a time until you loose possession dont make any sence. There has to be a purpose & a plan & if anything thats what I feel is lacking on game days in junior football. Training is another matter all together. To try & force a 433 is down right stupid. You can play good football with any formation its whats going on upstairs that counts. How many of us have seen coaches take their team during the week into the club rooms & teach them theory for an hour? When kids being playing this game they should be brain washed on how to play the game & not taken to the field to begin kicking a ball around to have "fun"

[Željko Jurin]

When kids being playing this game they should be brain washed on how to play the game & not taken to the field to begin kicking a ball around to have "fun"

Huh ???

[Faith No More]

When kids being playing this game they should be brain washed on how to play the game & not taken to the field to begin kicking a ball around to have "fun"

Huh ???

Not sure what mr. Black means .

Many teams & clubs have different styles & ways of developing their players. i coach a team & we are trying to develop a new squad this year , trying to play out of defence, playing in triangles, quick ball movement.
this has led at times to some heavy defeats , when it doesn't come off or we are playing some bigger , stronger players & some criticism from some ( frustrated that it is not progressing as quick as we would all like ). but we have to keep helping the kids become better players & play better football. Fun & enthusiasm is a must if youngsters are to continue playing the game, it does make it hard when you lose heavily but they are starting to see the benefits & hopefully over the next couple of years if we can keep most of them together, it will bear fruit.
Playing 4-3-3 as we have done at State Talent level enables players to learn a style/method that they may not have learnt at their club at this stage. people know it as the dutch way, but really it is just a little more technical, makes kids think & allows them to express themselves, based more on ability than size or strength.
some clubs have really embraced it , such as raiders , comets, croydon & para hills that I am aware of, which I am sure will benefit their players & their club in general for years to come.
we have tried a couple of different formations both in games & at training, with varying degrees of success , but that's why we try things to see what works & what doesn't yet.
Everybody naturally likes to win, no one wants to get relegated as you may lose kids , but the truth is you have to stay true to what you beleive & work on the long term benefits even if there is some percieved short term pain.
If you worry about the ladder you take your eye off the real principle of coaching, which is teaching IMO.
I'm new to this forum so if you disagree with me , it's only my opinion.

[MR Black]

What I am trying to say is that there should be more theory with young kids. Sit down in front of a white board, watch vidios of games to explain how the game should be played. The do & donts. I have coached in the past & know players who at 14 still did not know offside correctly, players who did not know how a midfielder should be playing, who at 14 still dont know the shape of a back 4. In my opinion these kids where never sat down & explained these parts of the game. At the end of the day if young players understand the game correctly & use their brains as well as their feet they will play better & have more FUN. Thats what I am trying to say.

[barchetta]

I'm not really sure what it is to 'Have fun' when playing a sport. Some kids (and adults) enjoy clownng around and consider this to be fun while others try and emulate their heroes in whatever league. Those that enjoy the latter will get frustrated of they or there team mates don't have the same mind set. Kids that clown around for fun aren't necessarily bad kids but they obviously don't have the desire for the game. As the kids get older some that were serious players as ten year olds get frustrated when they can't do great things with the ball. Even with gre at spririt in mind they will never achieve at a high level. That's just a fact of life.

[Željko Jurin]

What I am trying to say is that there should be more theory with young kids. Sit down in front of a white board, watch vidios of games to explain how the game should be played. The do & donts. I have coached in the past & know players who at 14 still did not know offside correctly, players who did not know how a midfielder should be playing, who at 14 still dont know the shape of a back 4. In my opinion these kids where never sat down & explained these parts of the game. At the end of the day if young players understand the game correctly & use their brains as well as their feet they will play better & have more FUN. Thats what I am trying to say.

Then they don't watch enough football on tv ....

[Hetro Metro]

Have a look at Raiders U12 team, quality

[Faith No More]

Spot on Hetro Metro !
But they are not alone , there are some wonderful kids playing & learning with very good skills.
today we were beaten by a team who I stood & clapped many times with their movement & skill.
they made the ball do the work & whilst we toiled hard , were outclassed.
something for me & my team to take on board, learn & become better through our mistakes & at times lack of pressure.
that's why every week, win or lose it is a learning experience for all of us.

[Ginger Pele]

Spot on Hetro Metro !
But they are not alone , there are some wonderful kids playing & learning with very good skills.
today we were beaten by a team who I stood & clapped many times with their movement & skill.
they made the ball do the work & whilst we toiled hard , were outclassed.
something for me & my team to take on board, learn & become better through our mistakes & at times lack of pressure.
that's why every week, win or lose it is a learning experience for all of us.

Nice post...Well Done you are on the right track!!!

[Faith No More]

But Ginger, parents still complain if you get relegated or lose heavily !
If it was to happen, it would be interesting who would want to stay or go to another club in the higher division.
If we can create a positive culture then those that want to stay will.

[Faith No More]

What I am trying to say is that there should be more theory with young kids. Sit down in front of a white board, watch vidios of games to explain how the game should be played. The do & donts. I have coached in the past & know players who at 14 still did not know offside correctly, players who did not know how a midfielder should be playing, who at 14 still dont know the shape of a back 4. In my opinion these kids where never sat down & explained these parts of the game. At the end of the day if young players understand the game correctly & use their brains as well as their feet they will play better & have more FUN. Thats what I am trying to say.

Best place to learn is on the pitch.
That's what we train for, to learn.
i have used the whiteboard on nights when there is torrential rain/lightning, inside the clubrooms instead of sending them home early, but would rather try to practice it on the pitch.

[NSX]

The FFA and FFSA have put a structure in place as a guidance in developing young kids is this right or wrong?

Surely, clubs can coach their players to play out from the back and kick long when required, coaches should have
different tactics to combat the opposition. As most clubs love to win unfortuantley there has to be someone who
loses.

FFSA/FFA have implemented the Optus Sided Football prgram for develeping and having fun!!, these kids from 5 to 11
play for no points and scores are not recorded by the Federation.

When you get to 12's and up then the Clubs want the best for their club and teach players on how to win, wheather it's
kicking long, playing out the back or both.

Let's not lose site of the big picture and develope our kids on a winning style, because let's face it no one likes losing
no mater how old you are.

[Faith No More]

A couple of seasons ago watched a team win the league by booting it long to their 2 big centre forwards. the next season they played div 1 & got smashed as better more skilful teams worked it out quickly & the team in question finished bottom.
Is it better to have short term pain & learn or the other way ?
We all like to win, it beats losing for sure but what is the balance ?

[AL K HOLIC]

The truth is parents and players do want to win and if their club is being relegated out of top leagues, the top players will consider a move. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just explaining it happens, therefore there is a thin line for some clubs.

Every team start off the season with a goal or development plan, however this changes throughout the year.

Clubs who hold an A league spot and find themselves in relegation will change their game to win, they may even drop those lifted players for the odd game to protect their A league spot if possible.

The same is said at the top, not many teams set out as a goal to win the league as such, however if the chance comes, then of course the team will change their plans to try and acheive that goal, especially if your a B league team wanting top league football.

These changes can be lowering times for players in tight games and or changing game plans. Every team has different strengths and weakness' and it is the coach who has to use that to plan his formation and style to keep parents/player and club happy.

Let's be honest 98% of the players playing are not going to be pros, so the ones that have a shot send them to specialists to get that, in the meantime let the rest just try to enjoy it, if that means winning a league or cup final, so be it.

[Drusetta]

Spot on Hetro Metro !
But they are not alone , there are some wonderful kids playing & learning with very good skills.
today we were beaten by a team who I stood & clapped many times with their movement & skill.
they made the ball do the work & whilst we toiled hard , were outclassed.
something for me & my team to take on board, learn & become better through our mistakes & at times lack of pressure.
that's why every week, win or lose it is a learning experience for all of us.

Nice post...Well Done you are on the right track!!!

+ 1

[Nice One Cyril]

Football's a pretty simple game and for what it's worth, I think that we've become too fixated on this 433 idea that we're putting the cart before the horse. There's so many basics to learn first that IMO there's no point teaching any formations if the kids don't have the technical skills, which they can be taught whether you're playing 442, 433, 451 or some Christmas Tree formation!

Once a lad has touch, vision, anticipation, application, physical fitness, etc, not only can he play virtually any position on the pitch, he can also play virtually any formation you care to name. You have to teach kids to play with their brain, not just their feet. I was always taught, it doesn't matter how good a passer you are, if you can't visualise the pass in your head, you'll never play it.

[Faith No More]

3 things :
Technical: skills-touch,movement,shooting,passing,heading etc,etc.
Physical: tackling,running ( with & without the ball ), stamina etc,etc.
Mental: effort, brain,making space, voice,attitude.

Many players have 1 or 2 of these 3 , good players have 2, the better ones have all 3.

[Nice One Cyril]

3 things :
Technical: skills-touch,movement,shooting,passing,heading etc,etc.
Physical: tackling,running ( with & without the ball ), stamina etc,etc.
Mental: effort, brain,making space, voice,attitude.

Many players have 1 or 2 of these 3 , good players have 2, the better ones have all 3.

I've seen hundreds of kids with great foot and physical skills, but absolutely no frickin' idea of how to use them effectively. It's a crying shame.

[MR Black]

Nice One Cyril - perfectly said

[SID]

very true Cyril....

[corona]

all well and good to play 433 , but some clubs are pushing that style and thats great , but the question is does the coach know how to play 433 , and what to do with midfielders and strikers when defence is boxed in , learning yes , and yes all coaches know , but not all its not a easy formation . i have seen coaches where there not instructing the players where to position themselves when defence has the ball . but hey they will learn , but when parents pay the money the want results , not only on the score board . as state teams selectors look at the winning teams first . its a very debatable way to play , next few years we will play like germany or engalnd or who ever . let Australia make a style . why do we need to copy another country , cant we use our own brains and form a system , or is it to easy to look next door .