FFSA format for U15 Man U Cup Tournament

[johnydep]

Firstly, thank you to all the people that worked to make sure that South Australia was privileged to have the tournament; well done to all the officials and staff, and thank you.

Congratulations to the finalists, and the winner. Job well done and a true team effort.

WT Birkalla, good luck in Melbourne and make sure the players and coaches receive all the resources required to be a strong contender.

Now for next years tournament. There were some mistakes, most of us saw them and know them. Lets look at them and prepare for future tournaments.

As Zeljko points out, it was a hard weekend for the players. Especially if you take into account that it's the beginning of the season, difficult conditions, and lots of games. Has anyone compiled a list of injuries? I'm sure they are long, and some will be occurring over the next few days after the adrenalin wears off and stressed muscles/tendons start becoming sore.

Is there any reason, as the tournament is about the kids and not what is easier to organise for the Federation, that it is played over 2 weekends like they do in Victoria ?
Maybe even Weds night quarter finals to split it up, and give the kids the chance to recover from bumps and knocks they receive, rather then playing on with them, and the chance to injure themselves even more

The finalists played 6 games in 3 days, including 3 on the last day ....... that is just ridiculous ........ where is the 'duty of care' that is always talked about and they pull out on hot days .........

Kids arent allowed to train / play when it hits 33c between 11am and 5pm, but if its 32c (or 30c like it was yesterday), its ok to play 3 games within 4-5hrs ...... crazy stuff ........

Good question.

Did anyone consider that the sun is at it's worst in the middle of the day, and what we're taught by the Skin Cancer Foundation how dangerous it is.

Our club sent an email to the FFSA early on, when the fixtures and guidelines were sent to us. We asked/stated a number of items of concern:

• Clarification of the wording of the guidelines. Which was eventually re-worded.
  Concern about the number of games that the finalist teams would play by the end of the tournament, and the possible temperature of the weekend.
  How the draw was conducted; club received no invitation to the draw.
  No club consultation; Club Junior Delegates know their business.
  The system that was used for the draw.
  We stated a better format - group each division together, separately. Example - U15'A' teams grouped and drawn first, creating 5 tables with 2 'A' teams in each. Group remaining teams in same manner etc. A redraw would have been the fairest outcome.

Our coach was told, on the day, that the draw was done "FA Cup style". Sorry, but this is not an FA Cup style tournament.

I hope that the the people at the FFSA involved in organising this event have learnt some lessons, and things will be different next year. However, until they start involving clubs in the discussion of such events, I fear that we'll be going around in circles for a long time to come.

[Željko Jurin]

Our coach was told, on the day, that the draw was done "FA Cup style". Sorry, but this is not an FA Cup style tournament.

Since when is the FA Cup played in groups ??

Yes, alot of lessons need to be learned, and things changed to make it better and safer FOR THE KIDS .......... dont understand why these sort of things didnt get highlighted in previous years, this is the 3rd or 4th year isnt it ?

[rabbit]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but foresight is much more valuable. Planning involves communication. Communication involves talking..........something the FFSA could do better.

[johnydep]

Our coach was told, on the day, that the draw was done "FA Cup style". Sorry, but this is not an FA Cup style tournament.

Since when is the FA Cup played in groups ??

Yes, alot of lessons need to be learned, and things changed to make it better and safer FOR THE KIDS .......... dont understand why these sort of things didnt get highlighted in previous years, this is the 3rd or 4th year isnt it ?

As Rabbit said "Hindsight is a wonderful thing but foresight is much more valuable".

Not sure how the draw was done last year, but look at the 2010 fixtures - http://www.mediafire.com/?myan0aaeo24hw3z

[kings]

FFSA format for U15 Man U Cup Tournament
Dimi got it right the first year why did they change it:
They should play 5 games per day that way it would give a better opportunity to the bottom teams.

[rossonero]

*how hard is it to make 5 groups of 4 teams...group one had 5 teams...
*games been cut short because the games were running late, and not giving a chance to teams to warm up
*teams should be seeded like every other tournament in the world
*appealing referee's decisions is ridiculous
*not having st john's present incase of emergency (i saw one player having an asthma attack and another breaking his arm, ambulance took over 1 hr to arrive)....
*once again no one showed up from adelaide united

[Your Shout]

*how hard is it to make 5 groups of 4 teams...group one had 5 teams...maybe that was because 21 teams registered
*games been cut short because the games were running late, and not giving a chance to teams to warm up....didn't see any games cut short, only run late because of officials, all teams warming up in same boat
*teams should be seeded like every other tournament in the world.....what like tennis????
*appealing referee's decisions is ridiculous....this happens every whistle blow!!!!
*not having st john's present incase of emergency (i saw one player having an asthma attack and another breaking his arm, ambulance took over 1 hr to arrive)....I'll give you that one!
*once again no one showed up from adelaide united....and this made a difference.....?????, maybe they are all non Man Utd supporters!!

[black]

how about arranging it over the two week period as mentioned above, but have the second finals week played at Hindmarsh.
Maybe as a pregame show for AU match?
Additionally the finals should only be refereed by senior refs.

[kings]

how about arranging it over the two week period as mentioned above, but have the second finals week played at Hindmarsh.
Maybe as a pregame show for AU match?
Additionally the finals should only be refereed by senior refs.

black senior refs is that what you want.
what was wrong with 30 degrees 3 games a box of panadols and a dehydrated team.

[rossonero]

ohhh now i understand why teams had no warm ups..... players were expected to get warm from the sun....

[black]

how about arranging it over the two week period as mentioned above, but have the second finals week played at Hindmarsh.
Maybe as a pregame show for AU match?
Additionally the finals should only be refereed by senior refs.

black senior refs is that what you want.
what was wrong with 30 degrees 3 games a box of panadols and a dehydrated team.

yes them to.

[magicfootball1]

Firstly, thank you to all the people that worked to make sure that South Australia was privileged to have the tournament; well done to all the officials and staff, and thank you.

Congratulations to the finalists, and the winner. Job well done and a true team effort.

WT Birkalla, good luck in Melbourne and make sure the players and coaches receive all the resources required to be a strong contender.

Now for next years tournament. There were some mistakes, most of us saw them and know them. Lets look at them and prepare for future tournaments.

As Zeljko points out, it was a hard weekend for the players. Especially if you take into account that it's the beginning of the season, difficult conditions, and lots of games. Has anyone compiled a list of injuries? I'm sure they are long, and some will be occurring over the next few days after the adrenalin wears off and stressed muscles/tendons start becoming sore.

Is there any reason, as the tournament is about the kids and not what is easier to organise for the Federation, that it is played over 2 weekends like they do in Victoria ?
Maybe even Weds night quarter finals to split it up, and give the kids the chance to recover from bumps and knocks they receive, rather then playing on with them, and the chance to injure themselves even more

The finalists played 6 games in 3 days, including 3 on the last day ....... that is just ridiculous ........ where is the 'duty of care' that is always talked about and they pull out on hot days .........

Kids arent allowed to train / play when it hits 33c between 11am and 5pm, but if its 32c (or 30c like it was yesterday), its ok to play 3 games within 4-5hrs ...... crazy stuff ........

Good question.

Did anyone consider that the sun is at it's worst in the middle of the day, and what we're taught by the Skin Cancer Foundation how dangerous it is.

Our club sent an email to the FFSA early on, when the fixtures and guidelines were sent to us. We asked/stated a number of items of concern:

• Clarification of the wording of the guidelines. Which was eventually re-worded.
  Concern about the number of games that the finalist teams would play by the end of the tournament, and the possible temperature of the weekend.
  How the draw was conducted; club received no invitation to the draw.
  No club consultation; Club Junior Delegates know their business.
  The system that was used for the draw.
  We stated a better format - group each division together, separately. Example - U15'A' teams grouped and drawn first, creating 5 tables with 2 'A' teams in each. Group remaining teams in same manner etc. A redraw would have been the fairest outcome.

Our coach was told, on the day, that the draw was done "FA Cup style". Sorry, but this is not an FA Cup style tournament.

I hope that the the people at the FFSA involved in organising this event have learnt some lessons, and things will be different next year. However, until they start involving clubs in the discussion of such events, I fear that we'll be going around in circles for a long time to come.

I think your crying is getting annoying now, the croydon offcials kept complaining. You guys didnt win and you were looking to change the tournament so you get a better deal! whenever i went upstairs croydon were at it complaining. you blame a lot, maybe your son should have stepped up, the game i saw him play cost the team.
I thought ffsa handled things well considereing its a big event. i asked the ffsa how the draw was done and they explained it and it seems fair, random draw anyone can play anyone. All said and done if you finish top in your group you go through! very simple.

[AL K HOLIC]

Obviously this is a dodgey set up but something similar would be great and better for all parties, making sure that our best teams have adequate time to recover, plan, or whatever. (obviously all teams need to be registered by game one with no add ons)

capped at 18 teams
6 groups of 3 - 1ABC-2ABC-3ABC-4ABC-5ABC-6ABC
I believe Burton has 3 pitches

1 GAME PER TEAM USING ALL 3 PITCHES
Wed night - 6pm (groups 1aVb-2aVb-4aVb) & 8 pm (groups 3aVb-5aVb-6aVb)
Sun - 9am (groups 3aVc-5aVc-6aVc) & 11am (groups 1aVc-2aVc-4aVc)
Wed night - 6pm (groups 1bVc-2bVc-4bVc) & 8pm (groups 3bVc-5bVc-6bVc)

Top 6 teams go through into 2 groups of 3 - groups 1ABC/2ABC

TWO GAMES PER TEAM USING 2 PITCHES ONLY- ALLOWING ONE PITCH TIME OFF TO RECOVER FOR THE FINAL
Highest placed/GD team of group 1/2 get the longer break(3pm)
Sun - 9am (groups 1aVb-2aVb) & 12pm (groups 1cva-2cVa) & 3pm (groups 1bVc-2bVc)

Top 2 teams from each group into final

Wed - 6pm Final

Now I'm just an idiot but not hard to formulate something over 12 days

[johnydep]

I think your crying is getting annoying now, the croydon offcials kept complaining. You guys didnt win and you were looking to change the tournament so you get a better deal! whenever i went upstairs croydon were at it complaining. you blame a lot, maybe your son should have stepped up, the game i saw him play cost the team.
I thought ffsa handled things well considereing its a big event. i asked the ffsa how the draw was done and they explained it and it seems fair, random draw anyone can play anyone. All said and done if you finish top in your group you go through! very simple.

Maybe, that's your opinion. My opinion is different. I accepted the outcome, I accepted it on the first day that Raiders won.

I have never accepted how the draw was conducted, or how the finalist teams had to play so many games in a short time.

Next year is hopefully another year for the Man U Cup, myself and my club would like to see the format of the Draw changed. We would also like to see some other changes brought in; such as the 2010 round, where the final game was played several days later.

If you would like to see the email sent to the FFSA prior to the tournament, send me your email and I'll forward it to you.

ps. Croydon may have been complaining, to each other, but no one spoke to the officials to make instant changes.

[johnydep]

Obviously this is a dodgey set up but something similar would be great and better for all parties, making sure that our best teams have adequate time to recover, plan, or whatever. (obviously all teams need to be registered by game one with no add ons)

capped at 18 teams
6 groups of 3 - 1ABC-2ABC-3ABC-4ABC-5ABC-6ABC
I believe Burton has 3 pitches

1 GAME PER TEAM USING ALL 3 PITCHES
Wed night - 6pm (groups 1aVb-2aVb-4aVb) & 8 pm (groups 3aVb-5aVb-6aVb)
Sun - 9am (groups 3aVc-5aVc-6aVc) & 11am (groups 1aVc-2aVc-4aVc)
Wed night - 6pm (groups 1bVc-2bVc-4bVc) & 8pm (groups 3bVc-5bVc-6bVc)

Top 6 teams go through into 2 groups of 3 - groups 1ABC/2ABC

TWO GAMES PER TEAM USING 2 PITCHES ONLY- ALLOWING ONE PITCH TIME OFF TO RECOVER FOR THE FINAL
Highest placed/GD team of group 1/2 get the longer break(3pm)
Sun - 9am (groups 1aVb-2aVb) & 12pm (groups 1cva-2cVa) & 3pm (groups 1bVc-2bVc)

Top 2 teams from each group into final

Wed - 6pm Final

Now I'm just an idiot but not hard to formulate something over 12 days

Good start. Ideas should be taken on-board for next year.

[Chalky]

Magicfootball1 You’re a nice person!!! To put the blame on one individual player and state he cost the team the game is just sheer malice. You’re a nasty piece of work. I wasn’t there, nor do I have any affiliation with the any of the clubs mentioned. I hope the young lad doesn’t read your pathetic post. Grow up!

[winning feeling]

Get over it Croydon you dont here Blue eagles, Comets or Raiders Complaining.
Lets face it you were not good enough.

[johnydep]

Get over it Croydon you dont here Blue eagles, Comets or Raiders Complaining.
Lets face it you were not good enough.

This is not about Croydon. The tournament is over.

This is about improving the format for next year.

Please put your bias aside, for the good of the game.

[harrycripps]

Croydon complained before the tournament regarding the format.

As a parent of a Raiders player, I believe the format was a shambles. Not because Raiders lost, but they had to play 5 ‘cup finals’ in 3 days in intensive heat. One of the mums told me that her son had to miss school yesterday due to muscle spasms.

The draw was much more difficult for some teams, but that’s not the main point. The issue is recovery time after tough games.

I believe that any team that won Group 2 did not realistically have a chance of winning the tournament because of the schedule. Luckily no one was seriously injured.

Much more communication with ALL clubs (not the selected few) is needed and greater transparency.

Well done Birkalla, it was great to see you win the final.

[Stitch This]

How long was each game?

[runcorn2adelaide]

25 Minute Half's

[clubman]

Well done Birkalla, it was great to see you win the semi-final
Did the best team win the tournament i think so .
So what's the problem Always the best teams get to the final and the best team wins.
Well done Birkalla

[themessenger]

Get over it Croydon you dont here Blue eagles, Comets or Raiders Complaining.
Lets face it you were not good enough.

This is not about Croydon. The tournament is over.

This is about improving the format for next year.

Please put your bias aside, for the good of the game.

Why not replicate the system used in other states such as NSW who held their competition over the weekend 10th-11th March.

Their competition was conducted on a "Knockout Basis, Sixteen teams (16) were been seeded based on 2011 Competiton tables in both Premier Youth League and Super Youth League competitons".

[runcorn2adelaide]

Here's one way to show impartiality, publish the draw on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClBp-oLkxw

[black]

maybe your son should have stepped up, the game i saw him play cost the team.

Thread is on improving the tournament and you go and attack a minor?
I for one am glad you're behind a user name. I'd hate to find out your a friend with comments like that.
For the record JD and family have done a great deal for the game, community and club. To slag his son is pretty low.

On topic, as mentioned before run the tournament over two weekends with the finals as a warm up for an AU home game or grand final of the Carlsberg cup. Not that hard to organize.

[runcorn2adelaide]

I have seen a copy of the format of the Pacific Finals from last year, and they follow the similar intense 2-day format.
I guess there is an argument that says having the qualification phase just as intense will prepare the boys better for the next phase.
I would suggest that the finals will follow a similar format.

This will be driven by the cost of running the tournament as Nike pick-up the accommodation costs for all of the players.

[DUKE BLUE]

In NSW Quarterfinals played last night...

Marconi 2-0 Bonnyrigg
Blacktown v Sutherland 4-1 on pen
Sydney Utd v Olympic 3-0 on pen
Manly 2-0 Apia

Thursday night Semifinal are played at 6:00 & the final at 9:00pm

Marconi vs Manly
Blacktown vs Sydney Utd

[Your Shout]

Duke Blue,
Correct me if I am wrong but the NSW tournament was meant to be played several weeks ago over a 2 day weekend. Due to their wet weather over the past few weeks it had to be rescheduled not once, but twice and thus you get them playing games on various nights of the week.

Doesn't matter how and when this cup is played there will always be someone whinging,

Too hot, Too Cold, No warm up, the lights brighter at one end, pitches too small, pitches too large, the list goes on and on.....

Funny how the forumites in other states are saying exactly the same things!!!!

[johnydep]

maybe your son should have stepped up, the game i saw him play cost the team.

Thread is on improving the tournament and you go and attack a minor?
I for one am glad you're behind a user name. I'd hate to find out your a friend with comments like that.
For the record JD and family have done a great deal for the game, community and club. To slag his son is pretty low.

On topic, as mentioned before run the tournament over two weekends with the finals as a warm up for an AU home game or grand final of the Carlsberg cup. Not that hard to organize.

Cheers black, and chalky.

Magic's not a friend of yours, but most football people know him.

[johnydep]

Duke Blue,
Correct me if I am wrong but the NSW tournament was meant to be played several weeks ago over a 2 day weekend. Due to their wet weather over the past few weeks it had to be rescheduled not once, but twice and thus you get them playing games on various nights of the week.

Doesn't matter how and when this cup is played there will always be someone whinging,

Too hot, Too Cold, No warm up, the lights brighter at one end, pitches too small, pitches too large, the list goes on and on.....

Funny how the forumites in other states are saying exactly the same things!!!!

True. Last year, SA, it was the pitch condition.

The FFSA fixed that by moving to Burton, excellent flat pitches. Hopefully each year there is more improvements in all aspects of the tournament from all involved; as it should be.