Club Trials

[FUBAR]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

[geoff9559]

Fubar.......at Toros the situation is that current players are given the opportunity to re-register prior to trials so that the club has some idea of who is definitely around for next season. This does assist with planning and I guess in a way it is 'guaranteeing' a position somewhere within the club for the player. The returning players are asked to attend trials so we can get them all working together with people trying out at the club.

As to the second part of your question, there are a lot of clubs all undertaking trials at the same time, it is going to be difficult for some families to decide a 'hit list' of clubs to attend and hope to get in.

With the FFSA indicating that no trials could be held until after all junior competitions have been completed, that has compressed the time line for clubs to host trials and to lock in teams for next season. So frenetic times indeed come late September.

cheers

Geoff9559

[magnet]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

I can't speak for other clubs but current Juniors are expected to attend trials. The coaches usually make existing players wear their training or matchday tops. It can be an intimidating process for kids looking to trial at a new club.

Most clubs are holding trials week beginning 22nd September. It's hard to decide as some clubs have very high attendance at trials.

[FUBAR]

Thanks for the replies guys.

To the parents on here: what are the reasons why you would look to change clubs for your sons (and even daughters)

[matty2323]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

I think if you guarantee current players a spot each season, then you may allow room for complacency. I say to my current players that they have the whole season to "trial" where other players have 4 sessions in the space of a week. Surely that provides them with a very good foundation to continue to make the squad. But yes, they are required to attend trials. Most coaches would have a good idea going into trials of who in their current squad are capable on taking the step next season:

[Jett]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

I think if you guarantee current players a spot each season, then you may allow room for complacency. I say to my current players that they have the whole season to "trial" where other players have 4 sessions in the space of a week. Surely that provides them with a very good foundation to continue to make the squad. But yes, they are required to attend trials. Most coaches would have a good idea going into trials of who in their current squad are capable on taking the step next season:

For a club to guarantee current players a spot for next season probably means that club has many vacancies available. Don't forget there are 2 teams or more allowed for each age group, 1 jpl and 1 or more jsl teams.

[soccer_2015]

Thanks for the replies guys.

To the parents on here: what are the reasons why you would look to change clubs for your sons (and even daughters)

Maybe if my son's coach was to move to another local club that we may follow.
Maybe if the group of kids he has become friends with on his team were to all move.
If parents at our current club weren't inclusive, didn't make us feel welcome, constantly spoke badly to my son or myself.

Ultimately I want my son to have quality coaching and enjoy the game. If these two things are missing I'd imagine we'd look around at our options.

It's a good question and I'd like to hear from people with experience in changing clubs, and the main reason why they changed. My son is only young, so i'd assume the reasons may change depending on the age of the child?

[soccer_2015]

How can you decide a hit list of trials to attend, without knowing who the coach is for your age group at each club?

[paul merson]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

I think if you guarantee current players a spot each season, then you may allow room for complacency. I say to my current players that they have the whole season to "trial" where other players have 4 sessions in the space of a week. Surely that provides them with a very good foundation to continue to make the squad. But yes, they are required to attend trials. Most coaches would have a good idea going into trials of who in their current squad are capable on taking the step next season:

What do you look at for GK's Matt?

[matty2323]

With lots of clubs posting about Jnr trials. I am wondering do clubs make their current jnrs go through the process also or are those players guaranteed a spot with in the team?

Also, as parents how do you decide on where to take your child to trial?

I think if you guarantee current players a spot each season, then you may allow room for complacency. I say to my current players that they have the whole season to "trial" where other players have 4 sessions in the space of a week. Surely that provides them with a very good foundation to continue to make the squad. But yes, they are required to attend trials. Most coaches would have a good idea going into trials of who in their current squad are capable on taking the step next season:

What do you look at for GK's Matt?

Honestly Dan, i'd identified my GK before my under 12 trials and informed the group at the first trial that the GK position was taken. Considering its a specialist position, I think GKs are more "targeted". He has been with me for 2 seasons now.

If i was to judge keepers at trials, i would like to see them in 4v4 SSGs to assess their technical skills. I would then ask the clubs GK coach to work with them for a trial or two (judge their specific GK skills - Handling, Shot Stopping, Positioning etc). In the final trial (normally a 11v11) i would look at their communication, starting position and distribution. I would also look at physical assets (specifically height).

[FUBAR]

Some great responses. I particularly like the comment about how can parents pick which teams to trial for when they don't know who the coach is. Coach quality would at the top of my list of criteria.

I also am of the opinion making your "own" players trial does not promote loyalty or it's because your current group of players are not good enough??

But I guess we all have to respect the process each club decides to take.

[soccer_2015]

from what I hear junior coaches, directors, players, as well as the senior players and coaches are often moving clubs. so if my son remains loyal to his club, who is he remaining loyal to? -the bricks of the club....? the team colours...? the cement of the carpark...? most people will be gone by the time loyalty could be acknowledged? I like the idea of loyalty, but shame it doesn't seem to have much meaning these days. Should there be an incentive offered to kids to remain at their club?

[geoff9559]

from what I hear junior coaches, directors, players, as well as the senior players and coaches are often moving clubs. so if my son remains loyal to his club, who is he remaining loyal to? -the bricks of the club....? the team colours...? the cement of the carpark...? most people will be gone by the time loyalty could be acknowledged? I like the idea of loyalty, but shame it doesn't seem to have much meaning these days. Should there be an incentive offered to kids to remain at their club?

Soccer_2015.......that is a debate I've heard many a time. For myself and a lot of friends our children are staying at one club....even if the coach is not the best or that there might be difficulties with the committee ..it's showing our kids that you cant just walk away or change a club when things get too hard. You have to persevere and in some cases (like at our school) when it's really wrong then step in and assist in sorting the issue. If it got to being unbearable or that our children were totally miserable, then we'd review the situation however would hope that a conservation had been had prior to it getting this bad. Moving a lot means that you might not get the nod for selection to FFSA run events whereas others who have been at the club for awhile and are known (for their abilities/skill/temperament) will get the nod. Not too sure on Seniors as I'm speaking from Junior experience. We have one family who moved to four clubs in three years prior to staying at our club and they are now happy, we dont know what the original issues were with other clubs but can say that they have decided to stay - this could be that they realised they were going backwards in their child's soccer development and having to break into a team quite often.
I personally do believe there is loyalty in a majority of clubs, some wont develop young players as they know they can buy in the talent or the talent will come to them based on name and reputation. But for the rest they will look after the players if the player continues a long relationship with the club.
Regards
Geoff9559

[soccer_2015]

Good post thanks Geoff. I agree, staying at the one club and working through problems that arise is the way to go, I just hope the junior coaching directorship/structure/kids at my son's club doesn't change too much in the times ahead. Research shows that when a child changes school it sets their learning back about 6 months, and I'd imagine the same or similar principles could be applied to changing clubs and soccer development.

[magnet]

There are some valid concerns from parents. Our club is providing the JPL team with an experienced qualified coach whereas the JSL team is coached by a Dad who has undertaken a 3-day FFSA course (no disrespect as he is a great bloke). The fees are the same and some parents now feel that if their child is in the JSL they will not get the advantages of the JPL coach. What can a club do to make sure this does not happen?

[Winston_the_First]

Great discussion here and some great points. We have experienced both sides of the coin. In our first club at U13 level, we embraced the club, attended pre season working bees, all club functions, some senior games and really enjoyed the club atmosphere. We liked the club and wanted to be loyal. End of season 1, trials for season 2 and a new coach, and my son was cut. Pretty tough experience for an U13. But we found another JPL club and have been there for 3 years and are very happy. There are a great club. The new club does show a lot more loyalty and seems to generally (but not always) give preference to current players at trials.

[FUBAR]

Finally a topic with genuine responses all offering up a good debate.

We must all respect the fact clubs want the best possible players but would it be fair to say that the "best" players don't change clubs anyway?

Are their clubs out there that first look to promote from within EG JSL to JPL before looking externally?

[magnet]

Finally a topic with genuine responses all offering up a good debate.

We must all respect the fact clubs want the best possible players but would it be fair to say that the "best" players don't change clubs anyway?

Are their clubs out there that first look to promote from within EG JSL to JPL before looking externally?

We have a situation where we have 32 existing players (16 x JPL and 16 x JSL). Everyone has a clean slate, the Coach is new to the club he has no preconceptions. The club will have to handle the emotions of existing JPL players getting cut to JSL and players who do not make either team.

[soccer_2015]

Great discussion here and some great points. We have experienced both sides of the coin. In our first club at U13 level, we embraced the club, attended pre season working bees, all club functions, some senior games and really enjoyed the club atmosphere. We liked the club and wanted to be loyal. End of season 1, trials for season 2 and a new coach, and my son was cut. Pretty tough experience for an U13.

If clubs aren't loyal to the families that are loyal to the club (I.e a family going to all working bees, functions etc), then what is this teaching our kids about loyalty? Surely a child is trialing "for the club" so what the child brings off the field in terms of committee member parents, working bee parents, etc should be factored in, because regardless of how many talented kids you have, a club can't run without all the volunteers behind the scenes..

[soccer_2015]

What about, if you do 4 years of Mini Roos at the same club, then you are guaranteed a spot at the club for all subsequent but consecutive years?

[matty2323]

Great discussion here and some great points. We have experienced both sides of the coin. In our first club at U13 level, we embraced the club, attended pre season working bees, all club functions, some senior games and really enjoyed the club atmosphere. We liked the club and wanted to be loyal. End of season 1, trials for season 2 and a new coach, and my son was cut. Pretty tough experience for an U13.

If clubs aren't loyal to the families that are loyal to the club (I.e a family going to all working bees, functions etc), then what is this teaching our kids about loyalty? Surely a child is trialing "for the club" so what the child brings off the field in terms of committee member parents, working bee parents, etc should be factored in, because regardless of how many talented kids you have, a club can't run without all the volunteers behind the scenes..

I disagree with this. My club, like many others, rely heavily on players being produced in our juniors to fill our senior team. The sole objective of our junior programme is to produce players for our first team.

My personal opinion as a coach is i look solely at the players talent and potential (technique, attitude, commitment, willingness to learn etc). What i then try and do is create an environment and atmosphere within the group (players, coaches & parents) that encourages people to be involved with the club. Normally when you create these positive learning environments the kids excel and develop (and more than likely continued to get selected) and you have parents who develop an affection for the club and continue to support and help out.

It will always come back to talent (im not talking solely about skill, but more attitude, commitment, willingness to learn etc) though. A player who joins the club at 8-9 for instance is joining an environment where the sole requirements is "hes wants to play football and have fun". Once you hit competitive football (under 12s) the demands and requirements on players start to increase. by the time under 14s comes around (elite football) then kids who solely "want to play football" will more than likely not make it. You need to "want to be a footballer".

Is it fair on another kid who may want to be a footballer and has the desire and determination to push himself into the first team one day to not get selected simply because a kid has been at the club for a period of time and his parents help out? This kid will never make senior football teams (u18, reserves or first team).

Loyalty is a fantastic word. But you just can't 'give it out'. Kids earn loyalty by attending every session and training hard. If the kid continues to train hard and commit to his development, than 9/10 he will be rewarded with continued selection. I think its important to learn these life lessons as well. Kids shouldnt be picked solely because there parents are financial backers nor should kids be selected solely because their parents are good volunteers: Kids need ownership of their own football career and need to understand that it is their actions that will determine how far they go...

[soccer_2015]

good points matty

[geoff9559]

We are working on a system for the next seasons that for 'volunteer' work which is outside of the norm or what is expected gains 'hours' or time towards a discount in fees for the next season. THis doesnt mean that suddenly there's 5 "assistant" coaches who clock up the time towards a drop in fees, more the person who's been doing the line marking all season out of the goodness of his heart - we need to acknowledge this. SO for a person who does between 10 to 20 hours of additional over the top work at the club they will receive a $100 discount in the next season, 20 to 30 is $150. THat's the idea and we're still working out how we draw up a guideline for this. So people who do that extra bit will be recognised......well that's the idea.

So for a family who do bust their guts for the club it is hoped that 1) they stay 2) they get some recognition 3) I'd be hoping the child is still selected

There's other stuff going on at the club but that's still pipeline work from what I've been advised.

Cheers
Geoff9559

[Socca]

We are talking about grassroot clubs in South Australia here, run by volunteers and parents, for the sole purpose of the kids having fun, making friends and keeping fit ?

[paul merson]

I think if you guarantee current players a spot each season, then you may allow room for complacency. I say to my current players that they have the whole season to "trial" where other players have 4 sessions in the space of a week. Surely that provides them with a very good foundation to continue to make the squad. But yes, they are required to attend trials. Most coaches would have a good idea going into trials of who in their current squad are capable on taking the step next season:

What do you look at for GK's Matt?

Honestly Dan, i'd identified my GK before my under 12 trials and informed the group at the first trial that the GK position was taken. Considering its a specialist position, I think GKs are more "targeted". He has been with me for 2 seasons now.

If i was to judge keepers at trials, i would like to see them in 4v4 SSGs to assess their technical skills. I would then ask the clubs GK coach to work with them for a trial or two (judge their specific GK skills - Handling, Shot Stopping, Positioning etc). In the final trial (normally a 11v11) i would look at their communication, starting position and distribution. I would also look at physical assets (specifically height).

Probably a good angle from a coach, from a GK perspective I wouldnt be overly concerned about GK skills at the age of 12, they can all be worked on, I moved across to keeping at 13 so yeh my GK skills would have been poor.
Character, attitude and size are more important as they cant be taught.
Ideally from my experience, having a gk at that age that has played on the field is an advantage.
But hey from a general football point of view cheers for your insight, who would have thought football news was informative??

[matty2323]

What do you look at for GK's Matt?

Honestly Dan, i'd identified my GK before my under 12 trials and informed the group at the first trial that the GK position was taken. Considering its a specialist position, I think GKs are more "targeted". He has been with me for 2 seasons now.

If i was to judge keepers at trials, i would like to see them in 4v4 SSGs to assess their technical skills. I would then ask the clubs GK coach to work with them for a trial or two (judge their specific GK skills - Handling, Shot Stopping, Positioning etc). In the final trial (normally a 11v11) i would look at their communication, starting position and distribution. I would also look at physical assets (specifically height).

Probably a good angle from a coach, from a GK perspective I wouldnt be overly concerned about GK skills at the age of 12, they can all be worked on, I moved across to keeping at 13 so yeh my GK skills would have been poor.
Character, attitude and size are more important as they cant be taught.
Ideally from my experience, having a gk at that age that has played on the field is an advantage.
But hey from a general football point of view cheers for your insight, who would have thought football news was informative??

Yeah, that was pretty much it when i first saw him: "Look at the size of this boy"! I'd imagine he will be standing eye to eye with you by the time he's 16-17. I know im biased, but he's got all the characteristics to go on make it. If he wasn't 12, he could already play senior football, he's taller then our senior goalkeepers!

[JDC]

Having more than one child at a club also has an impact on whether you stay and remain loyal to that club or you move elsewhere.
For any parent looking at joining a club for the first time it is important to know that the coaches have some form of qualifications.
When you consider the amount of money that is paid by each parent you would like to know that they are being trained by someone who at least has some basic level of knowledge and skills in being able to communicate and coach the kids.

The other issue relates to the 'assistants' that end up helping out. We all need volunteers but there is a problem when the 'assistants' (who are parents of kids playing) end up thinking and acting like they are the coach, rather than being an 'assistant' to the coach. This is where coaching coordinators need to have a clearly defined role about what their clubs position is etc.

Another aspect relates to how the club distributes information. Just have a look at their Website. Some clubs are great and some others, such as one of the 'big' Adelaide clubs, are woeful.

I agree that it is no good just sitting back watching and being critical of the volunteers (in most cases as in some cases they are paid) who put in at the club without asking yourself what you can do to help.

Being professional about everything that the club does is important and this relates to how the equipment is cared for and maintained, the look of the goals and grounds and the cleanliness of change rooms.

[magnet]

I am not 100% certain but a lot of the clubs at U12’s, 13’s, 14’s do not pay their coaches. It is usually Dad’s who have completed an FFA course. I am sure they are doing the best they can. I find that a lot of the criticism is direct at the coaches and not at the clubs who are happy to allow Dad’s to coach. If they really want to make a statement they should be putting the actual fees to the coaching of the respective team and not just thrown into the Senior pot.

[geoff9559]

I am not 100% certain but a lot of the clubs at U12’s, 13’s, 14’s do not pay their coaches. It is usually Dad’s who have completed an FFA course. I am sure they are doing the best they can. I find that a lot of the criticism is direct at the coaches and not at the clubs who are happy to allow Dad’s to coach. If they really want to make a statement they should be putting the actual fees to the coaching of the respective team and not just thrown into the Senior pot.

Magnet - sorry but you sound like my partner! She's saying the same things and all I can say is that we support our coaches with development (we have a Game Training Certificate for 12 of our people coming up) and that their child (if they have one at the club) receives free fees. So theoretically a coach could be gaining about $1000 in support from the Club. So I guess you could say that they are not being "paid" per see but they are receiving something for their effort.
Cheers
Geoff9559

[Green_Manalishi]

.......and not just thrown into the Senior pot.

Rather than rely on sideline gossip, come up with some actual figures to prove this.

We're all waiting