Keeper Movement in Cup Games

[Captn birdseye]

Is the rule the same this year that keepers don't get cup tied and can freely move between divisions?

[M@rvin]

Here is the current rule from the competiotion rules booklet:

e) A goalkeeper from a lower division team may move up and play in a higher cup
competition and then move back down to the lower division cup competition.
Example
An Under 17 Goalkeeper may move up and play in a higher grade cup competition and then
move back down to the Under 17 Cup Competition.
A Goalkeeper from one open age cup competition may move up and play in another open age
cup competition that is deemed to be of a higher grade and then return to the original open age
cup competition.
This ruling is only applicable to goalkeepers. Therefore a player cannot play in one team as a
goalkeeper and then move up and play on the field for another team and then come back down
as a goalkeeper.

[Super_Trooper]

Yep that is true.

I'm Division 1 goal keeper and over the last couple of years I have filled in games for our clubs reserve team if their goal keeper was injured or away and I have also sat on the bench for our prems team too (although never got any prems game time)

This has been for normal league games and also cup games.

We have had in writing from FFSA that this was allowed within the rules as I am a goal keeper and do not play any other position on the park.

Oh and I'm totally over the age of 18!!

Hope this helps!!

[Captn birdseye]

So if i gather correctly keepers can only move up not down?

So because Prem's have a bye this round a club can't play a Prem's keeper in a div 1 game say?

[pc9999]

I am confused over this too.
From my poor memory I thought it worked as follows

a) field player can move up and down to different cup comp ie Juniors to seniors (it may have been up and cant come back down)

b) a Goalie could go up and down as the need arises as we have a shortage of goalies (so in theory the same goalie can play both div 1 - prems each cup round)

Can anyone clarify this?

Question: For a field player
So in the current res/prems/div rounds seeing the res/div(s) are playing first they will all be cup tied and not able to play prems should they be knocked out?

which would then mean due to injury the only backup any team has is their juniors?

Anyone have an answer?

[ball_girl]

field players can move up, but once they've played in a higher div they wont be able to move back down to their original cup team.

so if a reserves team gets knocked out of the cup, that whole team is then eligible for the prems cup.
in saying that, i think players need to play a certain number of games in prems/cup before they are eligible to play in the cup final?

[gunners14]

field players can move up, but once they've played in a higher div they wont be able to move back down to their original cup team.

so if a reserves team gets knocked out of the cup, that whole team is then eligible for the prems cup.
in saying that, i think players need to play a certain number of games in prems/cup before they are eligible to play in the cup final?

Not 100% certain, but normally you are eligible to move up or down as a keeper and field players may move up. However with the new cup structure, because the prems and reserves are in the same cup versing each other you cannot go from one team to the other once the reserves has been eliminated. You are cup tied for the team you first play for in the same cup competition.

[M@rvin]

Best bet would be to get you're delegate to check with FFSA before Sunday or you might play an ineligable GK and have to forfiet the game.

The way I understand it is,

Senior players ( over 18 ) can move down to the next lowest team, Prems to reserves, reserves to Div2 if no Div 1.

Junior players ( under 18 ) have free movement, even up to Prems as reserve GK then back down or Div 2 to Div 3 then back.

[Super_Trooper]

pc9999

a) field player can move up and down to different cup comp ie Juniors to seniors (it may have been up and cant come back down)

Yes - Junior players can move up and can back down for cup rounds. See FFSA Rulings;

56. Additional Cup Competition Rules
(6) Where FFSA conducts a number of cup competition for, the information outlined below indicates when a player is or is not cup-tied:
a) If a player plays in an Under Age Cup Competition, they may move up and play for
their club in the next under age cup competition or Open Age Cup Competition, if age permits and if they have played the required number of games as outlined in rule 54.4.
b) Once a player has moved up to the next age level or open age cup competition they are NOT PERMITTED to move back down.
c) Once a player has played in an Open Division Cup Competition they are PERMITTED to move up to a cup competition that is deemed to be of a higher
standard if they have played the required number of games as outlined in rule 43.4.
d) Once a player has played in the highest cup competition, they are NOT PERMITTED to move down and play in any other cup competition for that season.

b) a Goalie could go up and down as the need arises as we have a shortage of goalies (so in theory the same goalie can play both div 1 - prems each cup round)

Yes - I am a Div 1 GK and occasionally sit on the bench for prems for league and cup games if the reserves keeper is injured or not available.

Question: For a field player
So in the current res/prems/div rounds seeing the res/div(s) are playing first they will all be cup tied and not able to play prems should they be knocked out?

If you play in the social division or reserves team and if you get knocked out you are welcome to play prems or a higher division team. Once you go up you cannot go back down (GK only excepted)

*Example for Cup Round 1*
- Metro Div 3 have a 10.30am kick off this Sunday. The Div 1 team has 1pm kick off
- Any Metro Div 1 player is eligible to play in this Div 3 team as they are only moving 1 division lower.
- Current Metro Prems are not allowed to play in any team other than Prems
- Current Metro Reserves can only play Reserves or Div 1 (as long as they havent been on Prems team sheet)
- If the Metro Div 1 player plays for Metro Div 3 this Sunday they are then cup tied to the Metro Div 3 team for all cup games until they have played in a higher Div cup.
- Therefore Metro Div 1 player could play in Div 3 Cup (win or lose) and then play the next Div 1 game at 1pm. If they do play the second game they cannot play in Div 3 Cup Game again

*** CUP SEMI-FINALS ***
Once Cup Semi-Finals arrive all players must have at least played 5 league games within that division to be eligible to play in the division cup final

* Example continued from above *
- If the Metro Div 1 player continues to play cup rounds tied to Div 3 they must also play (be on team sheet) for minimum 5 division 3 league games to be eligible to play the Div 3 cup semi and final

http://www.ffsa.com.au/fileadmin/user_u ... Y_2011.pdf


Does that make sense?

[Drusetta]

We are all saying GK"s excepted; but Rule 56 refers to a "player." This would include GK's (which I know is different to last season).
Does it specifically mention GK's excepted? I hope so.
I read a copy of the rules from last year; but have they changed for this year? Does anyone know?

Marvin - I think you'll find "junior" player means Under 17, not under 18. Therefore a player who turns 18 this season is considered an "overage" senior player.

Another consideration is that in the Prems/Reserves/Div1/Div2 no team is "knocked out" as such in Round 1 because the losers of the first round enter a Consolation Cup.
How do the rules apply to this and player movement?

One thing is clear - there is some serious confusion out there.

[gunners14]

field players can move up, but once they've played in a higher div they wont be able to move back down to their original cup team.

so if a reserves team gets knocked out of the cup, that whole team is then eligible for the prems cup.
in saying that, i think players need to play a certain number of games in prems/cup before they are eligible to play in the cup final?

Not 100% certain, but normally you are eligible to move up or down as a keeper and field players may move up. However with the new cup structure, because the prems and reserves are in the same cup versing each other you cannot go from one team to the other once the reserves has been eliminated. You are cup tied for the team you first play for in the same cup competition.

Just correcting my previous statement, the prems players cannot come down in the same cup competition, but if the reserves are eliminated then you are eligible to play up.

[Drusetta]

Super_Trooper
I thought the rules this year are that once an overage player is named on a team sheet for Prems, they can only play down to the next level (in your club's case, would be Reserves).

It would mean you cannot play Div 1 again.

The instructions/rules issued by the FFSA did not make an exception for GK's.

[pc9999]

My head now hurts thinking of scenarios
so say
round 1 City Prems have a bye, Res have a game and lose, div 1 has a game and win

round 2 (forgetting consolation), City Res cannot play for div1 b/c they are in a higher division? But they can play for City Prems.

if we consider consolation cup (dont see the point personally but...) City Res will play in that yet be eligible to play Prems at least? Also does this make them ineligible for div 1?

Correct?

[M@rvin]

Get your club delegate to get a ruling from FFSA in writing.
I have been told that FFSA is allowing GK's free movement and not be cup tied due to a shortage of GK's.

[Super_Trooper]

Super_Trooper
I thought the rules this year are that once an overage player is named on a team sheet for Prems, they can only play down to the next level (in your club's case, would be Reserves).

It would mean you cannot play Div 1 again.

The instructions/rules issued by the FFSA did not make an exception for GK's.

As far as I am aware and I did check with our club delegate tonight at training I have free movement as a GK.

My head now hurts thinking of scenarios
so say
round 1 City Prems have a bye, Res have a game and lose, div 1 has a game and win

round 2 (forgetting consolation), City Res cannot play for div1 b/c they are in a higher division? But they can play for City Prems.

if we consider consolation cup (dont see the point personally but...) City Res will play in that yet be eligible to play Prems at least? Also does this make them ineligible for div 1?

Correct?

Once a Reserve player is named on a team sheet or plays in prems (league or cup) they can only ever play in those two leagues (except GK's) for the remainder of the season.

Once a player has played in prems for cup they cannot move back down (regardless if this is in the individual Consolation or Adelaide Airport Cup)

[nanstar]

And what if you're a keeper who's also played a bit on the field in the lower division ?

[ARodgers]

And what if you're a keeper who's also played a bit on the field in the lower division ?

They lose their free movement as soon as the come on the pitch. We have been pretty careful with this rule in the past few seasons as our number 1 keeper is also one of the best field players at the club!

[Caretaker Coach]

Lets try and keep it simple - I know we want to look at all the possible scenarios, because there is always at least one club that has to ruin it for everybody else by exploiting the rules as much as they can,for the sake of a win.

I dont know what the ruling is in ffsa, in the saasl the rule is simple - you can name the GK from B grade team on the team sheet for the A grade in Cup games.
If during that game the A's game the GK is injured, and has to be replaced by the sub GK, then that Gk becomes cup tied to the A team.
If the sub GK does not come on the field of play at any time during the game, then he is still eligible to play for the B grade side in the Cup.
The last statement says it all - so you can be a field player for the B's, and named as a sub GK for the A's, once you enter the field of play during the game you become cup tied, regardless of what position you play.

Now I know some of you will try and exploit this simple ruling,and I would like to know which club you are involved with ?