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 Post subject: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:30 am 
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https://au.sports.yahoo.com/ravi-ashwin ... 25755.html


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:31 am 
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Quote:
Ravi Ashwin’s controversial Mankad dismissal of Jos Buttler in the Indian Premier League should have been ruled not out.

That’s the opinion shared among a number of cricketers, fans and pundits after footage was analysed from start to finish on Tuesday.

Sensing that Kings XI Punjab would not win their clash with Rajasthan Royals if Buttler remained out there, Ashwin – the team’s captain – took his chance.

He knocked the bails off at the non-striker’s end to send the English batsman back to the dressing room on 69 runs, and the ploy worked as Kings XI won by 14 runs.

But when the umpire sent the appeal upstairs to check if Buttler was out of his crease, a particular portion of the rules was ignored.


Ravi Ashwin shaped to bowl before his unexpected Mankad. Pic: BCCI
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A 2017 update to law 41.16 reads: “If the non-striker is out of his/her ground from the moment the ball comes into play to the instant when the bowler would normally have been expected to release the ball, the bowler is permitted to attempt to run him/her out.”

Note the key words ‘would normally have been expected to release the ball’.

Former Australian cricket stars Shane Warne and Lisa Sthalekar were among those to point out the discrepancy between the rulebook and what happened on the field.

Warne wrote: “(Ashwin) had no intention of delivering the ball – so it should have been called a dead ball.”


Shane Warne

@ShaneWarne
So disappointed in @ashwinravi99 as a Captain & as a person. All captains sign the #IPL wall & agree to play in the spirit of the game. RA had no intention of delivering the ball - so it should have been called a dead ball. Over to u BCCI - this a not a good look for the #IPL

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Sthalekar added: “(It) should have been called dead ball because at the point of release Buttler is in, but Ashwin waits until his momentum of ‘backing up’ takes him out of the crease’.”

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Lisa Sthalekar

@sthalekar93
Here’s my 2 cents worth on THE run out. Should have been called dead ball cause at the point of release ⬇️ Buttler is in, but Ashwin waits until his momentum of “backing up” takes him out of the crease. Butler’s technique could be improved to limit this by being side-on = power

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The argument boils down to Ashwin’s desperation to dismiss Buttler, having hesitated on his action to enact the Mankad.

The bowler stopped in his tracks, kept his bowling arm down, looked at Buttler and removed the bails.


Scott Styris

@scottbstyris
My opinion on the Buttler/Ashwin controversy is that its NOT Buttlers fault and its NOT Ashwins fault either

Ashwin is entitled to appeal

I thought the TV umpire made the incorrect decision

Shouldve been dead ball..... play on

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Rick Eyre on cricket

@rickeyrecricket
· Mar 26, 2019
Replying to @Cricket_Ali
I could also argue that Buttler was out of his ground when Ashwin "would normally have been expected to release the ball". It's almost as if 41.16 was written for this situation. Never mind third umpires or DRS I want a barrister for this!


Ali Martin

@Cricket_Ali
sorry, just to clarify I’m not saying dead ball because Buttler was in when run up was balked.

I’m saying dead ball because Buttler is in (or at least not definitively out of) his ground when Ashwin "would normally have been expected to release the ball"

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Matt Balmer
@MattBalmer7
This is an appalling mankad by Ravi Ashwin. Jos Buttler is still in his crease when he lands, so Ashwin should be expected to deliver the ball. Pretty poor effort from the captain. Certainly ain’t winning any ‘spirit of cricket’ awards. #VIVOIPL

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Kartik Dayanand

@KartikDayanand
That's a dead ball.#Ashwin

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7:39 AM - Mar 26, 2019
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Citizen/नागरिक/Dost Rajdeep

@sardesairajdeep
Just watched the Ashwin replay for the umpteenth time.. he wasn’t even in full delivery stride when he runs Butler out. Instead, he pauses and waits for Butler to leave the crease! NOT OUT even by LAW and Common sense dictates umpire should have called dead ball!

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robert askew
@chel4sea
· Mar 26, 2019
Replying to @AlisonMitchell
This incident Alison, I think you are sitting on the fence!


AlisonMitchell

@AlisonMitchell
My interpretation of the Law results in not out. Slow mo doesn’t look to me like Buttler was out of his ground at instant Ashwin would “normally have been expected to release the ball”. So dead ball. Difficulty is, Law relies on judging timing of s’thing that hasn’t happened

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Ashwin defended his actions after the match, saying his play was “very instinctive”.

“I didn’t even load and he left the crease,” he said.

“It’s always been my take on it, because it’s my half of the crease. We ended on the right side of it but those things are game-changers and batsmen need to be wary of it.”


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:04 am 
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My two cents. Give him one friendly warning IF he continually tries to "cheat" by running prior to delivery. After that, you're fair game. Pity in this instance Buttler was in his crease at time of intended delivery.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:46 pm 
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If you can score runs from leg byes then I have no problems with getting out in this fashion.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Hirohito wrote:
If you can score runs from leg byes then I have no problems with getting out in this fashion.


yes and a bowler can be one centimetre over the bowling crease and he can miss out on a wicket but the precious batsman seem to get away with everything these days

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Dave from Number 12 wrote:
Hirohito wrote:
If you can score runs from leg byes then I have no problems with getting out in this fashion.


yes and a bowler can be one centimetre over the bowling crease and he can miss out on a wicket but the precious batsman seem to get away with everything these days


And they already have bigger bats, shorter boundaries. Not sure why this doesn't get more attention (mode of dismissal) as it is a form of cheating by the runner/batsman, yet the "fed up" bowler gets all the howls and jeers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:52 pm 
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I think its ridiculous the criticism he has been facing over this.

It a legitimate within the rules way to get someone out, why not use it to your advantage with slack runners.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:29 am 
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Cooper wrote:
I think its ridiculous the criticism he has been facing over this.

It a legitimate within the rules way to get someone out, why not use it to your advantage with slack runners.



1. It's customary to give a warning.

2. Buttler didn't leave his crease until after the bowler should have released the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:12 pm 
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God is an Englishman wrote:
Cooper wrote:
I think its ridiculous the criticism he has been facing over this.

It a legitimate within the rules way to get someone out, why not use it to your advantage with slack runners.



1. It's customary to give a warning.

2. Buttler didn't leave his crease until after the bowler should have released the ball.


I heard that he did, but customary doesn't mean its required by the laws (unless it is written in the laws I don't know).

As for if he was out or not I have not commented, from the replays it suggests he wasn't but that doesn't change my point that it is a legitimate way to get someone out in cricket.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Cooper wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
Cooper wrote:
I think its ridiculous the criticism he has been facing over this.

It a legitimate within the rules way to get someone out, why not use it to your advantage with slack runners.



1. It's customary to give a warning.

2. Buttler didn't leave his crease until after the bowler should have released the ball.


I heard that he did, but customary doesn't mean its required by the laws (unless it is written in the laws I don't know).

As for if he was out or not I have not commented, from the replays it suggests he wasn't but that doesn't change my point that it is a legitimate way to get someone out in cricket.


It is not written in the laws.

Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:19 pm 
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It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured. You sometimes cannot legislate for "spirit" of sportsmanship, but I do side with the bowler here provided he did give a soft warning beforehand.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Bomber wrote:
It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured. You sometimes cannot legislate for "spirit" of sportsmanship, but I do side with the bowler here provided he did give a soft warning beforehand.


I tend to believe it is the refs decision to stop play when a player is injured. Seen to many players go down like a sack of shite, ball kicked out and they get up and play on.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:28 pm 
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Raich Carter wrote:
Bomber wrote:
It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured. You sometimes cannot legislate for "spirit" of sportsmanship, but I do side with the bowler here provided he did give a soft warning beforehand.


I tend to believe it is the refs decision to stop play when a player is injured. Seen to many players go down like a sack of shite, ball kicked out and they get up and play on.


That is the current law, hence the illustration that sometimes you do things "in the spirit of the game".

If treatment is required, then they have to go off (unless a yellow or red card offence) but for me, they should go off for (at least) the same amount of time they held up play.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Bomber wrote:
It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured.


I never kicked the ball out of play. The referee has a whistle, he can stop play if he feels it is warranted.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:52 am 
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Fountains Of Wayne wrote:
Bomber wrote:
It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured.


I never kicked the ball out of play. The referee has a whistle, he can stop play if he feels it is warranted.


I never had to. When I played, for some reason it was rare for players to roll around on the ground injured during play.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Never did in my ealy days either, but I looked after myself so got to play a lot longer. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ashwin and the Mankad controversy...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Bomber wrote:
Fountains Of Wayne wrote:
Bomber wrote:
It's not written in the laws in football that a player kicks the ball out when an opponent is down clearly injured.


I never kicked the ball out of play. The referee has a whistle, he can stop play if he feels it is warranted.


I never had to. When I played, for some reason it was rare for players to roll around on the ground injured during play.



The good old days, when MEN played sport!


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