No tanking in the AFL, lol

This forum is for discussion of other sports.

Moderators: Randoman, Ernie Cooksey, Forum Admins

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

bubu wrote:
Jay Walking wrote:
manimal wrote:team is selected on the basis that they will lose. that sounds like deliberate match manipulation to me.
No the team is selected based on who is injury free. Those guys are out there to impress and win because they want to keep their spot on the list. The average life span of an AFL player is 3 years.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


oh dear
What’s so funny?
He’s pretty spot on IMHO.

OK you’ve got a dozen to twenty players in each team who will have decade long careers.
The rest are playing for their livelihoods much every single game….
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote: What’s so funny?
He’s pretty spot on IMHO.

OK you’ve got a dozen to twenty players in each team who will have decade long careers.
The rest are playing for their livelihoods much every single game….
because they're not just "resting injured" players. They're putting a team out hoping it will get beat.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote: What’s so funny?
He’s pretty spot on IMHO.

OK you’ve got a dozen to twenty players in each team who will have decade long careers.
The rest are playing for their livelihoods much every single game….
because they're not just "resting injured" players. They're putting a team out hoping it will get beat.
How does that differ from a football manager bringing on a 16 year old substitute for his debut instead of bringing on the 28 year old at his prime who is right now better player?
By this topic’s definition, that’s tanking too.
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote: What’s so funny?
He’s pretty spot on IMHO.

OK you’ve got a dozen to twenty players in each team who will have decade long careers.
The rest are playing for their livelihoods much every single game….
because they're not just "resting injured" players. They're putting a team out hoping it will get beat.
How does that differ from a football manager bringing on a 16 year old substitute for his debut instead of bringing on the 28 year old at his prime who is right now better player?
By this topic’s definition, that’s tanking too.

because that 16 year old is still part of a team trying to win. Also, do you think that sub is coming on if the game is in the balance?
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

:lol: :lol:
C'mon mate, you're telling me those players on the field are playing to lose? No chance.
Every pro sportsman lives and dies by their contract expiry, playing sh*t will have you becoming a tradie in no time.

And if you're 3-0 down with 10mins to go and bring on the 16yo on debut instead of the seasoned pro, is that not tanking? Is the game still not winnable until the final whistle blows.
In a longer timeframe context, it's a bit like if you're 2-15 for the season and blood some youngsters instead of no future - but better - players.
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

In theory it's winnable. Realistically - come on behave! You aint scoring 3 goals in 3 minutes.


Of course the players want to win. Put me in a Millwall shirt or England shirt and I will want to win. More than anyone but we both know I'm not good enough and playing me surely shows they don't want to win.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

God is an Englishman wrote:In theory it's winnable. Realistically - come on behave! You aint scoring 3 goals in 3 minutes.


Of course the players want to win. Put me in a Millwall shirt or England shirt and I will want to win. More than anyone but we both know I'm not good enough and playing me surely shows they don't want to win.
If an AFL club has a sh*thouse start and is 4-12 win-loss, it's next to impossible to make the finals, but still mathematically possible. They've got rookies and bit part players on their list, so they should wait until it's mathematically impossible to make wholesale changes and try these players out? And Mr Servicable Veteran who's been taking painkilling injections before every game when there was something to play for still has to wreck his body so they can finish 13th instead of 15th rather than being sent off to surgery early?

In all sports with no relegation, when nothing can be salvaged from a season the work begins on the next ASAP to get an edge on everyone else.
Every sport does it, even F1 racing. They might stop modding and improving the current car in favour of improvements for next year.

It's worldwide, it's really not an issue but here in Australia there's a big complex about it and it's called tanking.
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:It's worldwide, it's really not an issue but here in Australia there's a big complex about it and it's called tanking.

It's called match fixing
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:It's worldwide, it's really not an issue but here in Australia there's a big complex about it and it's called tanking.

It's called match fixing
Yep, sending injured players to off-season early and blooding youngsters instead of out-of-contracted nothing players is the same as taking wads of cash from a dodgy Paki to directly influence the result.

wonders never cease... :lol:
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:It's worldwide, it's really not an issue but here in Australia there's a big complex about it and it's called tanking.

It's called match fixing
Yep, sending injured players to off-season early and blooding youngsters instead of out-of-contracted nothing players is the same as taking wads of cash from a dodgy Paki to directly influence the result.

wonders never cease... :lol:

if you send a team out with changes made in the hope they will lose, yep that's exactly the same.

Just replace the bookmakers cash with a higher draft pick.
Image

User avatar
Jay Walking
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7408
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by Jay Walking »

The Kop wrote::lol: :lol:
C'mon mate, you're telling me those players on the field are playing to lose? No chance.
Every pro sportsman lives and dies by their contract expiry, playing sh*t will have you becoming a tradie in no time.

And if you're 3-0 down with 10mins to go and bring on the 16yo on debut instead of the seasoned pro, is that not tanking? Is the game still not winnable until the final whistle blows.
In a longer timeframe context, it's a bit like if you're 2-15 for the season and blood some youngsters instead of no future - but better - players.
Bingo!

User avatar
Jay Walking
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7408
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by Jay Walking »

bubu wrote:
Jay Walking wrote:
manimal wrote:team is selected on the basis that they will lose. that sounds like deliberate match manipulation to me.
No the team is selected based on who is injury free. Those guys are out there to impress and win because they want to keep their spot on the list. The average life span of an AFL player is 3 years.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


oh dear
Care to put across your point?

Why did that young African lad come on for United instead of SVD against Perth? SVD is surely a better player?

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

Jay Walking wrote:Why did that young African lad come on for United instead of SVD against Perth? SVD is surely a better player?

What was the score at the time?
Image

User avatar
Jay Walking
Team Manager
Team Manager
Posts: 7408
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by Jay Walking »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Jay Walking wrote:Why did that young African lad come on for United instead of SVD against Perth? SVD is surely a better player?

What was the score at the time?
3-1, ended 3-2

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

Jay Walking wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
Jay Walking wrote:Why did that young African lad come on for United instead of SVD against Perth? SVD is surely a better player?

What was the score at the time?
3-1, ended 3-2

How long left?
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?
Image

sephiroth
Squad Player
Squad Player
Posts: 1578
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by sephiroth »

The Kop wrote:Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?
'Tanking' is in the mindset - deliberately picking a team in the knowledge that it is not good enough to win. However, tanking has its advantage in higher draft picks.

This is a massive problem in the NBA and they are not sure how to fix it.

In football we call that match-fixing, although the rewards usually come from a third-party and are located in a Cayman or BVI bank account.

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?

Because 3-1 with 30 seconds to play and the game is over and unwinnable.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

manimal wrote:
The Kop wrote:Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?
'Tanking' is in the mindset - deliberately picking a team in the knowledge that it is not good enough to win. However, tanking has its advantage in higher draft picks.

This is a massive problem in the NBA and they are not sure how to fix it.

In football we call that match-fixing, although the rewards usually come from a third-party and are located in a Cayman or BVI bank account.
NBA has lottery picks.
But they overdo it there to extremes, eg when the league fined Pop & the Spurs for taking a reserves side to Miami after a massive road trip where he sent Parker, Duncan, Ginobli to have 3-4 days rest. They still pushed a full-strength heat till the last couple. But Stern still fined them a ridiculous amount, fast forward 3 months later and they’ve got the best record.
That wasn’t tanking that’s just roster management to avert burnout.

Melbourne were doing a similar thing IMHO.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?

Because 3-1 with 30 seconds to play and the game is over and unwinnable.
Last year's EPL title was decided on goal difference....
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:Who’d remember, but isn’t that irrelevant?
For the amount of time he was on instead of SVD, the team was effectively tanking by not playing it’s best XI even for a second?

Because 3-1 with 30 seconds to play and the game is over and unwinnable.
Last year's EPL title was decided on goal difference....

They pulled a goal back so that's irrelevant. Did they go out with the intention of letting in more goals and to lose?
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

If they put their best player on, what's to say they wouldnt have bagged a couple and earnt a point?

Morale of the story, clubs should be free to do as they please and be held accountable only by their fans.

Melbourne have the intention to win a premiership. They think they can get to this point quicker by fielding a weakened side and give experience to younger players, losing along the way. That's collateral damage. By-product of losing is them recieving draft picks in the system that the AFL - who accuses them of tanking - created.
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:If they put their best player on, what's to say they wouldnt have bagged a couple and earnt a point?

Morale of the story, clubs should be free to do as they please and be held accountable only by their fans.

Melbourne have the intention to win a premiership. They think they can get to this point quicker by fielding a weakened side and give experience to younger players, losing along the way. That's collateral damage. By-product of losing is them recieving draft picks in the system that the AFL - who accuses them of tanking - created.

Not in 30 seconds they won't!
Image

User avatar
ruud
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 13172
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:18 pm

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by ruud »

God is an Englishman wrote:
Bacon888 wrote:Sometimes there's a European Cup match mid-week.

Wait, are we talking EPL??

50 game season, compare to 30 (??)

3 games in 7 days compared to one a week. Whilst I dno't agree with it, they always put a team on the pitch to win a game, this one they didn't care if they won or not. If anything, they didn't want to win.
AFL is a much more physically intense game than soccer

in fact, many people have said its the most physically intense sport in the world
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

ruud wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
Bacon888 wrote:Sometimes there's a European Cup match mid-week.

Wait, are we talking EPL??

50 game season, compare to 30 (??)

3 games in 7 days compared to one a week. Whilst I dno't agree with it, they always put a team on the pitch to win a game, this one they didn't care if they won or not. If anything, they didn't want to win.
AFL is a much more physically intense game than soccer

in fact, many people have said its the most physically intense sport in the world

no more physical than rugby, in fact less so I'd say.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

Physical isn't just strength.

Leaping, sprinting, endurance, agility.
I'd say AFL is the most physically demanding sport around.
Image

User avatar
Bomber
Vice Chairman
Vice Chairman
Posts: 60364
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:40 am
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by Bomber »

The Kop wrote:Physical isn't just strength.

Leaping, sprinting, endurance, agility.
I'd say AFL is the most physically demanding sport around.
I reckon UFC is more physically demanding.
Ignore this signature

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:Physical isn't just strength.

Leaping, sprinting, endurance, agility.
I'd say AFL is the most physically demanding sport around.

rugby has all of that,

football has all of that and you don't get a break whenever someone gets the ball, or someone running a drink round to you.
Image

User avatar
The Kop
Assistant Coach
Assistant Coach
Posts: 12355
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:43 am

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by The Kop »

God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:Physical isn't just strength.

Leaping, sprinting, endurance, agility.
I'd say AFL is the most physically demanding sport around.

rugby has all of that,

football has all of that and you don't get a break whenever someone gets the ball, or someone running a drink round to you.
As opposed to the stopping (but the clock's still rolling) when the ball is dead in football!! :lol:
Image

User avatar
God is an Englishman
Board Member
Board Member
Posts: 51452
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: No tanking in the AFL, lol

Post by God is an Englishman »

The Kop wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
The Kop wrote:Physical isn't just strength.

Leaping, sprinting, endurance, agility.
I'd say AFL is the most physically demanding sport around.

rugby has all of that,

football has all of that and you don't get a break whenever someone gets the ball, or someone running a drink round to you.
As opposed to the stopping (but the clock's still rolling) when the ball is dead in football!! :lol:

does that happen every time you complete a pass in football?
Image

Post Reply