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 Post subject: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am 
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On behalf of Millwall FC for providing you with Tim Cahill.

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


Last edited by God is an Englishman on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting you thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:06 am 
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I have to admit that it still shocks me that a guy that couldn't make an Under 18 team here in Australia could go to England and then play professionally within a year (assuming of course that Millwall were a professional club at that point in time and not a conference league team).

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 am 
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That's very worrying about the australian system.

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:14 am 
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God is an Englishman wrote:
That's very worrying about the australian system.


That was when we used to produce good players, imagine what it's like now where we have an overabundance of mediocre players.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:32 am 
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God is an Englishman wrote:
That's very worrying about the australian system.


a system that seems to favour players who are selected by who they know not on their talent alone.....


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Brian the Postman wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
That's very worrying about the australian system.


That was when we used to produce good players, imagine what it's like now where we have an overabundance of mediocre players.

Not sure they'd even reach the 'mediocre' classification.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Old Redback wrote:
Brian the Postman wrote:
God is an Englishman wrote:
That's very worrying about the australian system.


That was when we used to produce good players, imagine what it's like now where we have an overabundance of mediocre players.

Not sure they'd even reach the 'mediocre' classification.


That's what happens when you coach robotic systems and negate natural creativity.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:52 pm 
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@ Bomber

still spinning the same record.....

I personally know at least 2 Croydon championship winning players who weren't products of Croydon Juniors who arent 'robotic' and weren't coached to 'negate their creativity'....in fact, 1 of them is the most creative ive seen for a very long time...

might be best to get a better understanding of why the 'curriculum' was introduced...


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:04 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
@ Bomber

still spinning the same record.....

I personally know at least 2 Croydon championship winning players who weren't products of Croydon Juniors who arent 'robotic' and weren't coached to 'negate their creativity'....in fact, 1 of them is the most creative ive seen for a very long time...

might be best to get a better understanding of why the 'curriculum' was introduced...


I know very well about the so-called curriculum which is even supported by many at our club. Doesn't mean I have to agree with every aspect about it and I have yet to see any evidence that it has enhanced our general standards since its inception anyway.
Our national team is hardly setting the world on fire (at all ages), so until we start progressing there, I won't be swayed.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:21 pm 
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The curriculum :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:25 pm 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown:

Ok...i'll use simpler words so that you understand...

football curriculum = what gets taught/coached
methodology = how the above is taught/coached

you do realise that Italian football clubs follow a curriculum but may vary on their methodologies


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:27 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown:

Ok...i'll use simpler words so that you understand...

football curriculum = what gets taught/coached
methodology = how the above is taught/coached

you do realise that Italian football clubs follow a curriculum but may vary on their methodologies


Its not a national curriculum dope.
You morons have been sold a myth by dutch dinosaur snake oil peddlers who prey on backwater football nations.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:13 pm 
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so in principle, you agree in the idea that coaches do follow a curriculum and methodology??? but baulk at it being a national one....

should the curriculum be based....

on what the individual coach wants to teach and how its done
on what an individual club wants to teach and how its done
on what a region wants to teach and how its done
on what a state wants to teach and how its done

looking forward to your insights...


Quote:
You morons have been sold a myth by dutch dinosaur snake oil peddlers who prey on backwater football nations.


I guess the Germans and the Spanish are also morons


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:38 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
so in principle, you agree in the idea that coaches do follow a curriculum and methodology??? but baulk at it being a national one....

should the curriculum be based....

on what the individual coach wants to teach and how its done
on what an individual club wants to teach and how its done
on what a region wants to teach and how its done
on what a state wants to teach and how its done

looking forward to your insights...


Quote:
You morons have been sold a myth by dutch dinosaur snake oil peddlers who prey on backwater football nations.


I guess the Germans and the Spanish are also morons


I have not read the curriculum in full but my take would be.

It should come down to an individual clubs philosophy on how to coach and what is expected. Parents will soon vote with their feet if that is not a good outcome. It is my understanding that the curriculum stipulates 4-3-3 (Is that correct?). If that's true then I completely disagree. It's a very good formation and I do like it (if played correctly) but that shouldn't mean it's the ONLY formation and certainly not the only formation a kid should learn.

As juniors I believe kids should be encouraged to have confidence in themselves and keep the ball, they can learn the "if in doubt, kick it out later". As My son's coach said recently, kids should be encouraged to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes themselves. eg. A defender will not learn if all he does is boot it long to the forwards.

Interesting reading the latest coming out of the FA which includes:

Equal game time
Playing every position
No coaching on game day
No slide tackles
No parental shouting

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:25 am 
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So the important question is 'why 4 - 3 - 3'?

Understand the above and there won't be too many arguments.


Last edited by MegaBonus on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:26 am 
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Mega, in your opinion, why is the quality of our Socceroos players so poor?


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:39 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
So the important question is 'why 4 - 3 - 3'?

Understand the above and there won't be too many arguments.


Why ONLY 4-3-3?

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm 
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^^^^^^^^^^^

reminder @ youth level only

amongst other reasons....the following is prefaced by accepting that Australia has very rarely had genuine world class attacking players (current team no exception). we all know that its easier to execute effective defensive skills and tactics than it is attacking thus any youth development philosophy should focus on teaching young players the skills to attack either as an individual, a unit and as a team.

the 4 - 3 - 3 is an attacking formation which requires thus helps develop wide players (1 V 1) and just as importantly if not more important the no: 10 position (Maradona, Platini, Zico, Zidane etc). I cant ever recall Australia ever having a world class no: 10 (my memory is fading but A Vidmar, Bresciano & possibly Cahillwere good.....but)

secondly

the 4 - 3 - 3 creates a spread of players over the field in 3 lines thus promoting triangles (passing options thus playing out from the back). The FFA curriculum clearly states that "Playing out is a means to an end! The purpose is to go forward while keeping possession!", thus there is purpose for retaining possession. ideally, coaching possession football at youth level where results shouldnt matter develops players who are technically comfortable receiving and passing the ball in any area of the field whether under pressure or not, no matter the score, no matter whether its the 1st minute or the last.

thirdly

the 4 - 3 - 3 once taught and understood can easily be changed to other formations (especially defensive ones, even the 'wingless 4 - 4 - 2 ....thanks Alf Ramsey)


etc
etc


Last edited by MegaBonus on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
Sunny Vanilla

Mega, in your opinion, why is the quality of our Socceroos players so poor?


compared to whom???

Spain, Germany, Brazil, USA, Canada, NZ, Japan, Iran

remember to compare like for like.....

realistically, one could write a thesis


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:58 am 
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well that explains, why 4-3-3 but not why ONLY 4-3-3.

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Because

Amongst other reasons around consistency and efficiency, at youth level it meets all the criteria......


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:41 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
Because

Amongst other reasons around consistency and efficiency, at youth level it meets all the criteria......


then the criteria is not complete

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:48 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
Quote:
Sunny Vanilla

Mega, in your opinion, why is the quality of our Socceroos players so poor?


compared to whom???

Spain, Germany, Brazil, USA, Canada, NZ, Japan, Iran

remember to compare like for like.....

realistically, one could write a thesis


Compared to Socceroos from 10 years ago


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:02 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
Quote:
Sunny Vanilla
Mega, in your opinion, why is the quality of our Socceroos players so poor?

compared to whom???
Spain, Germany, Brazil, USA, Canada, NZ, Japan, Iran
remember to compare like for like.....
realistically, one could write a thesis


There is a 60000 character limit on this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Quote:
God is an Englishman


then the criteria is not complete


list what else should be considered


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:31 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
Quote:
God is an Englishman


then the criteria is not complete


list what else should be considered


the ability to play in/against more than one system

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:36 pm 
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but ive given the rationale why start with 4 - 3 - 3 at Junior/youth

are you proposing;

1 - we start with another formation
or
2 - we teach more than 1 at once


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:43 pm 
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MegaBonus wrote:
but ive given the rationale why start with 4 - 3 - 3 at Junior/youth

are you proposing;

1 - we start with another formation
or
2 - we teach more than 1 at once


Very simply, I'm suggesting that there is no such thing as a perfect formation and kids need to learn that and need to learn how to play many different ways.

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West Adelaide Soccer Club president Alex Alexandrou said the club was still in a position to be playing and training at the new ground either by the end of the 2015 season or in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:47 pm 
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Sunny Vanilla wrote:
MegaBonus wrote:
Quote:
Sunny Vanilla

Mega, in your opinion, why is the quality of our Socceroos players so poor?


compared to whom???

Spain, Germany, Brazil, USA, Canada, NZ, Japan, Iran

remember to compare like for like.....

realistically, one could write a thesis


Compared to Socceroos from 10 years ago


Mega?


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 Post subject: Re: I'll be accepting your thanks
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Quote:
God is an Englishman



Very simply, I'm suggesting that there is no such thing as a perfect formation and kids need to learn that and need to learn how to play many different ways.


ohhhh.....youre one of those parents :roll: :roll: :roll:

list the important stages in the development of a player and then outline how best achieve it....

if youre ever in a position to answer it, im listening...

im hardly an expert but my profession allows me to understand the sequential learning and methodologies implemented. what you cant argue with is, that whether its football, driving a car, maths, science or history there is a need to clarify what needs to be taught and how best teach it according to age and cognitive ability.

a coach and/or club should have the flexibility to adapt/change as long as the foundation is there. case in point, im lucky enough to coach a talented group of U14/15's (not at a club). they have an advanced level understanding of the 4 - 3 - 3 thus i saw it as my responsibility to challenge them further eg: 4-2-3-1 (essentially a 4-3-3) playing with 3 at the back in a 3-5-2 (remember the 80's), a 4-4-2.

anyway, im no expert but i believe so many comments are made by people who havent read the curriculum and understood the rationale.

and just to prove im no FFA sympathiser, im not a total devotee to the idea that we dont keep score and tables....young people need to learn how to be good losers and gracious winners. we have too many young people in our society who dont know how to handle rejection/failure because of the 'everyone gets a prize' policy....mums out there, im looking at you!!!! they lack resilience skills and coping mechanisms...

rant over!


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