Eventful 2014 Champions League Final

[Con M]

Really enjoyed this game. Can't believe it though that Atleti threw it away during injury time by not having a man on the post when defending that last-ditch corner by Real. That goal in the 93 minute allowed Real to equalise 1-1, then run away with the game in extra time.

Atletico took a huge risk starting Diego Costa in the game & he only lasted for 8 minutes. His mystery treatment for a hamstring injury by using horse placenta obviously failed.

Diego Simeone tarnished his great season by exploding at the ref & a Real player and twice running onto the pitch. He was really angry with the ref for adding on 5 minutes to the 90 and I think he was somewhat justified about that. The time added on seems such an inexact science. Simeone will almost certainly cop a UEFA sanction.

Just on that conceding-from-a-corner issue again, it also happened to Arsenal a week ago in the F.A. Cup Final when they didn't have a man on the post. Any forumite opinion on this fashion of only having one man on the post, and even having neither post covered?

[MegaBonus]

Any forumite opinion on this fashion of only having one man on the post, and even having neither post covered?

question is.....by having those players either zonal marking or man marking at corners, have they prevented more goals....stats would suggest this...

we seem to focus on the very few goals conceded directly from the corner rather than the % not scored by crowding the 18yd box....

[Con M]

Any forumite opinion on this fashion of only having one man on the post, and even having neither post covered?

question is.....by having those players either zonal marking or man marking at corners, have they prevented more goals....stats would suggest this...

we seem to focus on the very few goals conceded directly from the corner rather than the % not scored by crowding the 18yd box....

Yes, I can see that point to stop the header or shot at source, but so often you see weak headers or deflections just sneaking inside a post. Or a mere touch of a boot turning the ball just inside the post like the one Arsenal conceded in the Cup Final.

And Mega, I know some 'keepers really back themselves and often have no man on either post, but they look so awfully exposed.

[MegaBonus]

I found some stats which suggests that only .07% of corners result in goals......

you can now understand why teams with a 'possession' philosophy (closer to home = Adl Utd) would prefer to play a short corner and maintain possession in the oppositions back third rather than risk a counter attack...

[Con M]

Taking a corner short, two attackers against one defender, with so many teams even at high level forgetting to defend those 2-on-1 situations with 2 defenders, is good. It creates a crossing or shooting opportunity from much closer in.

But I'm still talking about having men on the posts. Plenty of forwards are still hands-on-hips up on the half-way line, too lazy to come back or not instructed to come back & fill that post-guarding role.

Would be interesting to hear Mers' and other local goal-keepers' opinion on this vexing topic.

[paul merson]

Taking a corner short, two attackers against one defender, with so many teams even at high level forgetting to defend those 2-on-1 situations with 2 defenders, is good. It creates a crossing or shooting opportunity from much closer in.

But I'm still talking about having men on the posts. Plenty of forwards are still hands-on-hips up on the half-way line, too lazy to come back or not instructed to come back & fill that post-guarding role.

Would be interesting to hear Mers' and other local goal-keepers' opinion on this vexing topic.

The point of not having players on the post is to have more players in a position to to stop the opposition header. As Mega has pointed out its worked for them this season its just a shame the one that gets through costs them a Champions League.

I wouldnt mind seeing a stat on how many corners AM have faced this season to the amount of goals conceded direct from it, lets be honest teams still score goals from corners with men on the posts, now there would be an interesting stat.

[Telson11]

The best Europe finals in the last few years

[Killing An Arab]

Telson has spoken.

[God is an Englishman]

A man on each post and man marking at corners makes perfect sense for the majority of a game but it comes down to a mathematical calculation in the end. In the last minute of a cup final when they opposition pushes everyone forward. You can't do both.

Even assuming the keeper doesn't come forward, the attacking team has 9 in the box. You can only have 8 marking if you cover both posts.

8<9

Basic maths.

[Con M]

A man on each post and man marking at corners makes perfect sense for the majority of a game but it comes down to a mathematical calculation in the end. In the last minute of a cup final when they opposition pushes everyone forward. You can't do both.

Even assuming the keeper doesn't come forward, the attacking team has 9 in the box. You can only have 8 marking if you cover both posts.

8<9

Basic maths.

Yeah, point taken about the numbers in the last frantic moments. But you also see some conservative teams not throwing caution to the wind and pushing 9 up.

So those have one attacking man taking the corner to put in the mixer, their keeper staying back and one man outside the area. That's then 8 v 8 again. Even if all 9 do push up to make 9 v 8, it's fairly heavy traffic in that box for one of the 9 to get a decisive header or touch.

Maybe a compromise would be at least a man on the far post, with the keeper sort of covering the centre and the near post. In that situation Ramos' header would have been saved with a simple clearance had there been at least a man on the far post.

The point is made about the very low scoring rates from corners. But the decisive ones do keep happening - Buffon conceding at a corner like that to Benfica in the Europa semi, which meant Juventus didn't get to play in the Final in their own stadium.

BTW, Mers. Locally it's not just your team where I've seen a forward with hands-on-hips up near the halfway line when you've been defending corners, - I've seen it throughout the local Premier League. Dunno if it's just laziness to come back and help, or they've been instructed to stay up for the breakaway, even though the immediate danger is facing that corner.

[God is an Englishman]

You leave one man out to give you an out. If everyone is in the box, who is the clearance going to. Not haivng a man there would mean the ball would come come straigh back.

The striker on the halfway line, challenges for the clearance and in the worst case scenario puts some pressure on the opposition player who will deliver the ball. In the best case scenario, he wins the ball and retains possession.

[Raich Carter]

You leave one man out to give you an out. If everyone is in the box, who is the clearance going to. Not haivng a man there would mean the ball would come come straigh back.

The striker on the halfway line, challenges for the clearance and in the worst case scenario puts some pressure on the opposition player who will deliver the ball. In the best case scenario, he wins the ball and retains possession.

And in most cases they'll be more than one defender kept back to avoid a one v one attack.

[MegaBonus]

The yield from corners ranges from 0 to .07. On average, the data show that a corner is good for (drumroll ....) 0.022 goals. This means that the average EPL team scores 1 goal from a corner about every 10 games. And this helps to explain the lack of a correlation between the number of corners and goal scoring. The infrequency of the goals from corners combined with a lack of dispersion between teams in corners per game lead conspire to make corners mostly, well, useless when it comes to scoring goals.

[The Kop]

Which is why statistically you should always take short corners, or at least vary them a little. There's a book out there that i read a while ago which agrees with this.

A lump into the box over and over again is the definition of insanity.

[God is an Englishman]

You leave one man out to give you an out. If everyone is in the box, who is the clearance going to. Not haivng a man there would mean the ball would come come straigh back.

The striker on the halfway line, challenges for the clearance and in the worst case scenario puts some pressure on the opposition player who will deliver the ball. In the best case scenario, he wins the ball and retains possession.

And in most cases they'll be more than one defender kept back to avoid a one v one attack.

Excellent point

[God is an Englishman]

Which is why statistically you should always take short corners, or at least vary them a little. There's a book out there that i read a while ago which agrees with this.

A lump into the box over and over again is the definition of insanity.

Would love to see the stats on that one, don't think I've ever seen a short corner work .

[Stuckey]

Which is why statistically you should always take short corners, or at least vary them a little. There's a book out there that i read a while ago which agrees with this.

A lump into the box over and over again is the definition of insanity.

Would love to see the stats on that one, don't think I've ever seen a short corner work .

I can recall a couple working in the HAL but that was probably down to poor defending!

[Con M]

You leave one man out to give you an out. If everyone is in the box, who is the clearance going to. Not haivng a man there would mean the ball would come come straigh back.

The striker on the halfway line, challenges for the clearance and in the worst case scenario puts some pressure on the opposition player who will deliver the ball. In the best case scenario, he wins the ball and retains possession.

And in most cases they'll be more than one defender kept back to avoid a one v one attack.

Excellent point

Ok Mackem Lad, fair point - let's go over it once again in your scenario:

The attacking team has one player hoofing it in from the corner flag; that attacking team has their keeper back on the edge of his area and TWO men guarding the sole opposition player on the half-way line so as to avoid the one-on-one attack situation you describe; and seven attackers up in the box to get on the end of the corner their team-mate is about to take. Total players for team taking the corner = the standard 11.

The team defending the corner: keeper in place; a man on each post; one man upfield to receive and hold up any clearance; and 7 men shoulder-to-shoulder marking the 7 opposition players. = the standard 11 for the team defending the corner.

In the event that the attackers are desperately fighting the clock and throw up one of those two players at the back, then the team defending the corner releases the man on the near post to pick him up. But keep the man on the far post at all costs. And hope like hell that Mega's stats prevail and conceding from that corner will be extremely unlucky.

[Nice One Cyril]

Which is why statistically you should always take short corners, or at least vary them a little. There's a book out there that i read a while ago which agrees with this.

A lump into the box over and over again is the definition of insanity.

Stats don't really tell you much though, it's more down to the dismal quality of the corners tbh. About a quarter of them don't even beat the first man, another quarter are cherry picking for the keeper and another quarter are overhit or far too far out to be a realistic chance. If you can consistently put the ball between the posts and roughly around head height, in between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot, it increases your chance of scoring tenfold IMO. I'm always surprised that a professional player can't consistently hit a target that size.