Italian failings blamed on referee

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Piola »

Insp. Montalbano wrote:
il duce wrote:Che Guevara would become a fascist before majority Australians acknowledge the truth about the Grosso incident and what makes Serie A special.

yea I was referring to you about supporting Australia/Italy. on that debate, I dont mind which team people took as long as they stuck by one and didnt jump from bandwagon to bandwagon depending on results.
I don't really care too much for international football, I support FC Internazionale Milano so I'm above it :mrgreen:

Deep down I wanted Australia to do well, it's home for me and my future generations, also the Italians irritated me a bit, they've flopped so many times before by being over confident and this time they showed the right spirit but more out of spite than anything else.

but if you ask me about 82 it's a completely different thing. Everything was different in football back then.
:lol:

fair enough. I love my international football though. Think of international football like your family. you dont choose what country you come from and there are rivals in the team (Totti, enough said) but you want them to win, just so you can take pride in your country being the world's best.

club football more like your mates in a sense cause you choose which club you support yourself. fight together each and every week against hated rivals, and there's a lot of history involved, plus political ideas, corruption etc. there are the true fans who support the club of their heritage and gloryhunters who inly support the big clubs or bandwagoners who move from club to club.

actually that was a very profound comment to be made at this time of night :mrgreen:

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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admin wrote: I thought you might take it the wrong way. I did not say Italy cheated. I was trying to explain the cultural difference that drives this debate.
what happened to the bull on heat comment :? :lol:

just trying to kill time before smoko and kickoff :wink:

I'm not taking it the wrong way, Aussies hate losing and are as one eyed as they come, as all good supporters should be.

I get pissed off when people say Choco is a sore loser, and say it as if it's a bad thing. Damn right he's a sore loser, why would you want a coach that is happy when he loses.

Point is Australia weren't smart enough at the last world cup and need to get the smarts on the football pitch and quick, to say they're trying to win fairly is a crock of shite.

Are you telling me that no one playing for Australia will milk a free, or do a professional foul at the next Socceroo game? And if it's held in Australia the crowd is going start booing him or telling him to get up? Your Dreaming!

Australians are nice people, but you need to be mentally retarded to be that nice on the sporting field :mrgreen:
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Insp. Montalbano wrote: Trevor was crap and was made a scape goat, Greg made the call, Trevor didn't want to do it. However Greg was the golden boy and the Cricket board wouldn't lose him, regardless of what % of supporters felt what, when Australians step over the white line they play with blood in their eyes (if you now the term)

The 70's and 80's are filled with incidents in Aussie rules were snipers would run around taking out the best players from oppositions and crowds love it.
On the under-arm incident - it was a mistake that has never happened again.

On Aussie Rules - that was the rules in those days. It was perfectly legal to clean up your opponent.

My comment was prefaced with "this is an over generalisation". By definition we can sit here all night pulling out isolated incidents that run contrary to the generalisation.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Insp. Montalbano wrote: what happened to the bull on heat comment :? :lol:
I thought you might take that one the wrong way too.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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il duce wrote:
Insp. Montalbano wrote:
il duce wrote:Che Guevara would become a fascist before majority Australians acknowledge the truth about the Grosso incident and what makes Serie A special.

yea I was referring to you about supporting Australia/Italy. on that debate, I dont mind which team people took as long as they stuck by one and didnt jump from bandwagon to bandwagon depending on results.
I don't really care too much for international football, I support FC Internazionale Milano so I'm above it :mrgreen:

Deep down I wanted Australia to do well, it's home for me and my future generations, also the Italians irritated me a bit, they've flopped so many times before by being over confident and this time they showed the right spirit but more out of spite than anything else.

but if you ask me about 82 it's a completely different thing. Everything was different in football back then.
:lol:

fair enough. I love my international football though. Think of international football like your family. you dont choose what country you come from and there are rivals in the team (Totti, enough said) but you want them to win, just so you can take pride in your country being the world's best.

club football more like your mates in a sense cause you choose which club you support yourself. fight together each and every week against hated rivals, and there's a lot of history involved, plus political ideas, corruption etc. there are the true fans who support the club of their heritage and gloryhunters who inly support the big clubs or bandwagoners who move from club to club.

actually that was a very profound comment to be made at this time of night :mrgreen:
your half right, international football may be your family but your club is your mrs' and trust me, as much as you love chablis and the end of the day it's your Mrs' your lying next to :P

and that's the final whistle cheers going for smoko
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Insp. Montalbano wrote: Point is Australia weren't smart enough at the last world cup and need to get the smarts on the football pitch and quick, to say they're trying to win fairly is a crock of shite.
The truth is Australia was not good enough - it was not about being smart - it was about not having the quality on the field to open up the Italian defence.

The penalty was a dramatic way for the fairytale story to come to an end.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Insp. Montalbano wrote:
Are you telling me that no one playing for Australia will milk a free, or do a professional foul at the next Socceroo game? And if it's held in Australia the crowd is going start booing him or telling him to get up? Your Dreaming!

Australians are nice people, but you need to be mentally retarded to be that nice on the sporting field :mrgreen:
Game about to kickoff so I have to go.

But one last comment - you are talking about on-field - I was talking about the cultural differences that drive this debate - your wires are crossed here - we are not talking about the same thing.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Insp. Montalbano wrote:
admin wrote:
Insp. Montalbano wrote: Anyway admin, I forgot why I was arguing with you about, what's your point again?
I think my original point was to comment that Italy may be paying the price of the Grosso penalty at Euro 2008 with referees giving the benefit of any doubt to Italy's opponents.
are you on meds? :lol:

Italians have been shafted by FIFA & UEFA for decades, if there was karma in football then it would be working for Italy not against them.
Stevie G Anfield Legend wrote: I dont know what game some people on this forum were watching, i unlike many people dont have anti-italy disease

people are always quick to bring up the australia game incident and probably always will in this country but that was no penalty. The referee's rarely give italy a decent go at major tournaments and today was more of the same.. how was that offside?.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by medallion »

Insp. Montalbano wrote:
admin wrote: Italy were on the ropes against Australia. Down to 10 men, no subs left, extreme heat inside the stadium - they were spent in those closing minutes - they were exhausted - the television cameras dont show you what was going on behind play. The Italian players knew they could not let the game go to extra time - Australia had two fresh subs ready to come on extra time - Italy was not going to win a game of attrition - so they made a big push in the final minutes and it worked - the rest is history.
I can't believe this game still comes up over and over and over...........again.

More so, I can't believe people still b!tch and moan about the penalty and say nothing about Materazzi's red which wasn't there.

Bad calls happen (even though I never for a second hesitated that it was a penalty when I was watching it live, just in case some of you aren't aware the ref doesn't actually get to see 489 replayes from 262 different angles before making the call) it's part of the game.

Old saying excuses are for losers.
You said it buddy! All the Italian supporters have come on here and given us all the excuses in the book about why the referee cost you. He cost you nothing! you couldn't get the result in 90 minutes, it's your own fault. Whether the offside goal was or wasn't, it didn't make a difference because Romania missed a penalty. (That was there for the record) Take a close look at how Italy played and you'll see they didn't deserve to win. Yes they dominated possession but they never looked like scoring. Romania on a number of occassions carved you up with sublime 1 touch football that could've led to a number of goals. So before you talk, look at how your team plays before you blame the refs.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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admin wrote:
Insp. Montalbano wrote:
admin wrote: Italy were on the ropes against Australia. Down to 10 men, no subs left, extreme heat inside the stadium - they were spent in those closing minutes - they were exhausted - the television cameras dont show you what was going on behind play. The Italian players knew they could not let the game go to extra time - Australia had two fresh subs ready to come on extra time - Italy was not going to win a game of attrition - so they made a big push in the final minutes and it worked - the rest is history.
I can't believe this game still comes up over and over and over...........again.

More so, I can't believe people still b!tch and moan about the penalty and say nothing about Materazzi's red which wasn't there.

Bad calls happen (even though I never for a second hesitated that it was a penalty when I was watching it live, just in case some of you aren't aware the ref doesn't actually get to see 489 replayes from 262 different angles before making the call) it's part of the game.

Old saying excuses are for losers.
Thats life. The game will always come up for forever and a day. No different to the hand of god incident - that always comes up. I am sure Argentinian fans are sick of hearing about the hand of god.

The incident happened and nothing you can do will change it.

Materazzi's red was harsh. If it had happened in extra time and had been accompanied by a penalty that decided the game then it would never have been forgotten.
If you tackle from behind, and get them below the knee what else can you expect. He had laid a few terrible tackles prior that didn't go punished so in the end he deserved it. Then he racially villifies Zidane's mother in the final and dives to get Zidane sent off. This guy does nothing for the game of football other than bring it in to disrepute.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Are you an idiot or something? It wasn't from behind, who cares what Materazzi said because that sort of thing goes on all the time. It was Zidane's fault for reacting to childish comments and he dived? Nice one. Just accept Zidane was in the wrong. I hate Materazzi, but to say he dived and was in the wrong is a load of cabernet.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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You make it sound like he was king hit! it was zidanes head brushing up against his chin, for Materazzi to all of a sudden drop to the floor like a sack of cabernet. After Zidane got his red he got up as if nothing had happened. In relation to childish comments they weren't and since then materazzi has "APOLOGISED" for his ludicrous comments. I think if someone actually apologises on national tv for saying something they would be a little more than "Childish".

Like you said, what's done is done, and the result is as it stands. Just don't get on here and defend such Barossa Pearl actions. It does nothing for football.

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Since when does headbutting his chest = chin?

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Juventino wrote:Since when does headbutting his chest = chin?
sorry chest

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Reggina10Cozza »

Insp. Montalbano wrote:
Reggina10Cozza wrote: in all honesty living in this country and listening to all the racist bs before and after the cup final, killed it for me, i just got caught up in how racist and jelous this country is of Italians I could not take it in.... so the experience will always be in the shadow of this crap...
I wouldn't go that far, it's not racist it's just the Australian way. They love their sports and hate losing (therefore don't take it very well) just ask any Brit living in Australia what they thought of the Commonwealth game coverage, it was Aussie this, Aussie that, and if an Aussie wasn't winning gold then you weren't going to see it!

Also need to factor in that 80% of Australians following the socceroos have nfi about football, let alone when it's on a global stage. I was more embarrassed about how inept Australia's media is on covering the game, instead of using the occasion to educate the masses on the tragedies of football they went for the "we wuz robbed" approach.
It is racism, racism includes media spreading ungrounded false truths about a culture, and the mainstream aussie culture (as they do so well) being influenced and judging a culture on these truths. The arrogant Australian attitude that think they are the best at everything, could not accept their pride was hurt, and were very sore losers. It didnt occur that their lack of education in football, and ridiculous claims spread all over the world and made Australians look like arrogant clowns... so much that countries that would have supported australian football would lose respect for them.... I for a long time thought this was an English influence on Australian culture, asEnglish press like to hammer Italian football, however after reading a few articles about a huge majority of English are supporting Italy, in light of Englands absence in the WC, I realised this is purely an Aussie thing, and when u look at the treatment and scapegoat treatment of minority cultures in Autralia this is no surprise. Unfortunately this incident has made Australians look uneducated, arrogant, racist and ignorant.
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Reggina the reason that the English dont have any issue with us is because we have not had any major incidents with them, whereas they have big rivalries with France, who are our rivals to take that quarter final place

now if you look at England's attitude towards Argentina, much of which is to do with the war but also the hand of god and Goal of the Century, very similar to the Australian attitude of Italy

f*ck em all I say

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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something worth reading for Italy bashers, have to applaud the authour, very honest/ unbiased reflection.
Azzurri Debate: Another Korea 2002 For Italy?
Italy’s Euro 2008 destiny is out of their own hands mainly due to a set of catastrophic refereeing decisions. Philippe Lambourde asks if we are seeing a repeat of the controversies from the 2002 World Cup in Japan and Korea…
»Comments (294) Print This Story Send To A Friend Contact Us galleria zoom Before I start what is sure to be the most heated Euro 2008 debate so far, I would like to clearly point out that I am a Frenchman, and so for quite obvious reasons I am far from being the greatest sympathiser towards the Italian nation.

Despite this it is simply impossible to write a piece on Italy’s Euro 2008 journey so far without coming to the conclusion that they have been crucified by the refereeing officials. Three simply massive decisions have incorrectly gone against the Azzurri during their two games. The first of course was the Ruud Van Nistelrooy opener for Holland on Monday night. Even if you implement the ridiculous new Fifa offside law about players off the pitch still being active, the goal should still have been disallowed. The ruling states that a player has to voluntarily leave the pitch for him to still be active. If you watch the replay you will see that Christian Panucci was bulldozed into touch by Gianluigi Buffon. Is that voluntary or involuntary I ask you?

Onto the Romania game yesterday, and another two huge decisions went against the Italians, the first of which probably cost them the three points. Luca Toni headed home at 0-0 in first half injury time, but was flagged offside, even though replays show that he was two yards behind the last defender. These are not millimetres we are talking about, a mistake such as this is unforgivable, and I don’t blame the cynical Italians who say that it could not have come as a result of human error. If things couldn’t get any worse, with 10 minutes remaining the referee then appallingly awards a penalty against Christian Panucci for a supposed shirt tug on Daniel Niculae. As a furious Luca Toni, who himself was denied a fair few decent penalty shouts, correctly pointed out after the game, “If that was a penalty, then we and every other team should have five per match.”

Buffon’s save from Adrian Mutu’s spot-kick meant that this decision was academic; however it certainly doesn’t prevent many Italians from drawing inevitable links between these Euros and the scandalous 2002 World Cup in Korea and Japan.

For those of you who need reminding, Italy were eliminated in the second round in 2002 after probably the worst set of refereeing decisions ever to go against a team during the history of the World Cup. During their final two group games against Croatia and Mexico, Giovanni Trapattoni’s men had four perfectly good goals disallowed, but somehow managed to scrape through to the second round where they met South Korea. Against the hosts, Italy again had a valid goal chalked off, a golden goal from Damiano Tomassi which would have taken them to the next round. Francesco Totti was sent off for diving when replays showed he had lost his footing, while the Koreans were awarded a controversial penalty for a Christian Panucci tugging offence. Sound familiar? Italy eventually lost after Ahn Jung-Hwan’s golden winner, but the match and Ecuadorian referee Byron Moreno (pictured above) have gone down in Italian football infamy.

As a side-topic on Moreno, the official would later that year receive a 20 match ban after he played an extra 13 minutes of stoppage time during a match between Deportiva Universita de Quito and Barcelona Sporting Club. During this time Deportiva scored twice to turn a 3-2 deficit into a 4-3 victory. After retuning from his suspension, Moreno was suspended again after controversially sending off three players in one match. He retired from officiating shortly after.

Back to the 2002 World Cup itself. The Italian nation cried that there had been a conspiracy against them, and they were soon joined by the Spanish, who in the very next game against Korea had two perfectly good goals disallowed as they were eliminated on penalties.

The conspiracy theory was that 1) there was a plot to throw Italy out of the World Cup, and 2) there was a plot to try and get South Korea as far as possible. The hosts also had some dubious calls go their way in their final group game, which saw Portugal eliminated.

Many people in Italy and Spain refuse to recognise the legality of the 2002 World Cup. Whether this should be viewed as bitterness or due to the fact that the tournament became something of a farce due to the ridiculous amount of ‘errors’, this is up for each individual to decide.

What is clear is that many Italians are starting to draw links between the 2002 World Cup and the 2008 European Championships. While Italy have clearly not played to their potential in Austria and Switzerland, and would surely have lost to Holland anyway regardless of the Van Nistelrooy opener, they would in all probability be sitting on three points had it not been for the dreadful Toni offside decision in the Romania game.

This would mean that they would have their destiny in their own hands for the match against France. It would also mean that Les Bleus would have controlled their future too. As it happens now a Romania win against an already qualified Holland will eliminate both World Cup finalists.

In tournaments it is often one goal that decides games so a bad referee can have a big influence in a team going home. Those of you who point to the slightly fortuitous penalty that Fabio Grosso received against Australia in the last World Cup should rewind the tape of that match 35 minutes and review the ridiculous sending off of Marco Materazzi before declaring, as some have, that “what goes around, comes around.”

What are your views on this topic? Is Euro 2008 another Korea 2002 for Italy? Have they been heavily penalised by the referees? Or are they hiding behind the referees as an excuse? Goal.com wants to know what YOU think

Philippe Lambourde
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Piola »

Reggina10Cozza wrote:something worth reading for Italy bashers, have to applaud the authour, very honest/ unbiased reflection.
check the previous page :mrgreen:

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Reggina10Cozza »

il duce wrote:
Reggina10Cozza wrote:something worth reading for Italy bashers, have to applaud the authour, very honest/ unbiased reflection.
check the previous page :mrgreen:
HAHA... should have realised you would have found that article on goal, with seconds of it surfacing.... good read though
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Piola »

Reggina10Cozza wrote:
il duce wrote:
Reggina10Cozza wrote:something worth reading for Italy bashers, have to applaud the authour, very honest/ unbiased reflection.
check the previous page :mrgreen:
HAHA... should have realised you would have found that article on goal, with seconds of it surfacing.... good read though
actually i dont read goal anymore cause theyre full of cabernet, was it from goal??

i got it off another forum where italians were getting bagged :mrgreen:


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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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Madridista612 wrote:It wasn't a penalty. I don't know how that could even come into question. Lucas Neill made a bad challenge and made 0 contact, Italian player came in and tripped over him. Luis Medina Cantalejo is a TERRIBLE referee though, even in Spain no one wants him to ref the games. Mejuto Gonzalez is better.
so the italian tripped as a result of the bad challenge? thats a penalty.

how can there be 0 contact if as you say "he tripped over him"

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by delfino_1936 »

getborn wrote:
Madridista612 wrote:It wasn't a penalty. I don't know how that could even come into question. Lucas Neill made a bad challenge and made 0 contact, Italian player came in and tripped over him. Luis Medina Cantalejo is a TERRIBLE referee though, even in Spain no one wants him to ref the games. Mejuto Gonzalez is better.
so the italian tripped as a result of the bad challenge? thats a penalty.

how can there be 0 contact if as you say "he tripped over him"
:lol: :lol: :lol: what an idiot
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Piola »

have a look at the Socceroo fans after the match
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-b_ovASVgz0&feature=related

and the Italians just walking by laughing at them..

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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

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medallion wrote:
Insp. Montalbano wrote:
admin wrote: Italy were on the ropes against Australia. Down to 10 men, no subs left, extreme heat inside the stadium - they were spent in those closing minutes - they were exhausted - the television cameras dont show you what was going on behind play. The Italian players knew they could not let the game go to extra time - Australia had two fresh subs ready to come on extra time - Italy was not going to win a game of attrition - so they made a big push in the final minutes and it worked - the rest is history.
I can't believe this game still comes up over and over and over...........again.

More so, I can't believe people still b!tch and moan about the penalty and say nothing about Materazzi's red which wasn't there.

Bad calls happen (even though I never for a second hesitated that it was a penalty when I was watching it live, just in case some of you aren't aware the ref doesn't actually get to see 489 replayes from 262 different angles before making the call) it's part of the game.

Old saying excuses are for losers.
You said it buddy! All the Italian supporters have come on here and given us all the excuses in the book about why the referee cost you. He cost you nothing! you couldn't get the result in 90 minutes, it's your own fault. Whether the offside goal was or wasn't, it didn't make a difference because Romania missed a penalty. (That was there for the record) Take a close look at how Italy played and you'll see they didn't deserve to win. Yes they dominated possession but they never looked like scoring. Romania on a number of occassions carved you up with sublime 1 touch football that could've led to a number of goals. So before you talk, look at how your team plays before you blame the refs.
Italy legend Gigi Riva urges the Azzurri to abandon the victim mentality and focus only on defeating France.

If Romania beat Holland, then both 2006 World Cup finalists will be eliminated from Euro 2008 in the first round.

“We have to beat France. It would be incredible if Holland won against Romania and we didn’t get the full result with the Bleus,” snapped FIGC figure Riva.

“We must avoid thinking of ourselves as victims and crying over spilt milk. It would mean going into the game with France giving less than 100 per cent.”

The media and players are obsessed with the idea of a biscotto – a fix – but the veteran is not swayed.

“In my time I have seen many biscotti and even cakes, such as the 2-2 draw between Sweden and Denmark in 2004, but also the Czech Republic’s victory in the last minute over Russia in 1996.

“But we have to think about our own game and nothing else. Besides, Marco Van Basten is not just a friend of Roberto Donadoni, but of all Italian football.

“I am certain Holland will play their game.”

The Dutch are already qualified and will field a second-string side, while it could be argued it would suit them to see potential threats France and Italy eliminated early on.

As Riva mentioned, the 2-2 draw in Euro 2004 that knocked the Azzurri out remains a dark shadow over their hopes of qualification.

“In Portugal, the situation was different, as Sweden and Denmark were on a similar level and went through together.

“Holland are the best team seen in the competition so far and nobody expected them to put three goals past Italy and four against France. If they sent out the reserves I’d be happier, as they are fresh and hungry to prove themselves.”

Italy have shot themselves in the foot so far with only one goal and one point from two games.

“I saw the World Cup squad again in the Romania match, as we attacked and created a great deal,” mused Riva.

“I would give a 9/10 to Luca Toni, even if the media said he played badly. He fought, had five shots on target and scored a perfectly valid goal.

“We have the best centre-forward in the European Championship. Italy are alive and want to play their last cards right to the end.”

France also have a slim chance of qualifying, but have not impressed the ex-Cagliari legend.

“We are playing against an opponent that is not the toughest of the group, despite what we thought before the competition kicked off. Having said that, this is France, not Malta.”
Italy got stitched hard in 2002, they didn't cry about it for years but went on to win the next world cup. Sure they may be unhappy with some decisions but it's football they get on with it, they don't run a personal attack years after the event :wink:
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by Translator »

admin wrote:
On the under-arm incident - it was a mistake that has never happened again.

On Aussie Rules - that was the rules in those days. It was perfectly legal to clean up your opponent.

My comment was prefaced with "this is an over generalisation". By definition we can sit here all night pulling out isolated incidents that run contrary to the generalisation.
Didn't realising king hitting behind play was legal back in the day...... I would have down it more (and probably copped more) if I knew that :D

btw I still don't get your point, something about Australians quoting passages from the bible when they play sport :P
I don't like lies. I have understood your market where sometimes lies sell more than truth. This is your life and I don't like it. I understand your work and I have to work with you, but the protection of my group is much more important than you

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pires7
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Re: Italian failings blamed on referee

Post by pires7 »

Take away AFL and NRL, if football was the number 1 sport in Aus. Australia would be ranked in the top 5-10, potentially with a WC win, jeez who couldn't beat England and they are top 10 most of the time!

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